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Old 07-11-2009, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY for now. Hanover, New Hampshire come the fall.
99 posts, read 128,609 times
Reputation: 64

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
Fair enough. But I disagree about the "talented" and tortured" entertainer bit. His talent was a matter of opinion, and any torture he endured was self-inflicted.
I don't think his talent is a matter of opinion. You don't have to like his music or even like him as a person, but the facts are facts: he was the greatest entertainer of all time.

Seriously, read it for yourself.
Records and achievements of Michael Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of awards received by Michael Jackson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone who can look at all of that and still find a way to downplay the guy's talent is either has an axe to grind or is just plain blind.
As for self inflicted torture, that is ludicrous. Sure, some of his problems were of his own doing, but he did not choose a dead beat attention-ho for a father and he did not choose to come down with the vitilgo and lupus that not only nearly killed him but resulted in his pale complexion.

A lot of the things you criticize him the most for(the child issues, surgeries and drugs) were due directly to mental instability caused by a rather shocking childhood. Much of that has already been documented-read up on it if you want.

Quote:
I made my point in this thread. Jackson was a hard-core drug user who used him money and influence to illegally obtain prescription drugs and horrifically abuse them. To glorify him and elevate him to hero status is absolutely ludicrous.

Enough said.
I'm sure you'll be out in full force to similarly denigrate the hundreds of other celebrities and noteworthy individuals who abused prescription drugs(without the mental instability Michael had, for that matter) when they pass away.
The fact is that he singlehandedly annihilated a color barrier and then proceeded to change the face of music. He became the most awarded entertainer in the entire history of music, and somehow still managed to become the most charitable pop singer ever(39 charities supported, more than any other singer).

And here you are harping on about a prescription drug addiction? The type of addiction that is startlingly common in Hollywood, Washington, and just about everywhere else? The type brought on by a legitimate illness and mental trauma which was, in turn, brought on from a turbulent childhood that the guy did not choose?
I don't really know why you're so anxious to denigrate the guy, but whatever floats your boat. I just don't see how you can be taken all that seriously.
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:59 PM
 
2,105 posts, read 1,194,980 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButterBrownBiscuit View Post
Lots of people were/are junkies, freaks, eccentrics, crazy, etc.
Yes. Nixon had Elvis over to the White House and gave him an honorary DEA badge. Elvis was probably high out of his gourd at the time, ironically...

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Old 07-12-2009, 12:03 AM
 
2,105 posts, read 1,194,980 times
Reputation: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLaw45 View Post
I don't think his talent is a matter of opinion. You don't have to like his music or even like him as a person, but the facts are facts: he was the greatest entertainer of all time.
I actually have quite a bit of compassion for MJ, but I think that the person you are debating with is right that it is entirely a matter of opinion..

Personally, I find labeling any person as the "greatest" anything is bizarre and involves a level of personal investment that is probably not healthy.
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:03 AM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,136 posts, read 585,149 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
It is pathetic the way some of the leaders of this country are perpetuating the misguided hero worship of a man who, more likely than not based on reports and eye-witness accounts, was nothing better than a junkie.





Portrait of Jackson's pill consumption emerges - CNN.com
No ma'am I highly suspect Mr. Jackson paid more than two bits for his junk. You have the right basic idea.
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:08 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
7,491 posts, read 6,472,992 times
Reputation: 10926
Default Why?

Regardless of your personal feelings for the man, he's dead. Why worry about his memory in the minds of others, favorable or not? Move on, and enjoy your own life.
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:39 AM
 
5,617 posts, read 13,755,438 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
It is pathetic the way some of the leaders of this country are perpetuating the misguided hero worship of a man who, more likely than not based on reports and eye-witness accounts, was nothing better than a junkie.





Portrait of Jackson's pill consumption emerges - CNN.com
and he got some good **** too!!! I mean when I was getting high, I could not land the stuff he was getting.
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Old 07-12-2009, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Orlando
8,233 posts, read 11,269,114 times
Reputation: 4064
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmg1 View Post
No, just a pathetic, pill popping liberal.
Hmmm... I challenge you to have 1/100'th the impact? how much did you raise for charity? He exceeded $100M. Exactly what have you done? How many millions have you made happy? How many world records have you achieved? How many will come to your funeral?

I find the issue with the doctors that are allowed to preform like this and keep their licenses? You blame someone that gets medicated by doctors for becoming dependent on medications Doesn't seem right to me but I guess I have a bit more compassion in my world.
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Old 07-12-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,879,978 times
Reputation: 17982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wellness View Post
See you shows all where freaks love Micheal and hide behind the facts.
Actually Hannity showed a tape on wacko about he liked to sleep with
young boys. No is did not do anything that anyone knows of, but you don't sleep with
young children that aren't yours period!
I agree with the point your making.
MJ thought of himself to a degree as a child.
In his mind he didn't think he was crossing any
boundries. MJ loved children and they loved
him, inadvertently setting himself up for lawsuits
by parents who saw it as an opportunity to
make money.
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Old 07-12-2009, 07:16 AM
 
12,870 posts, read 13,135,797 times
Reputation: 4453
the problem is that even though MJ was a 50 year old man, he never wanted to grow up. the public saw a man with a lot of plastic surgery and a wig who seemed younger than his 50 years. if any other 50 year old man was in bed with children they would be in jail because everyone knows that this is inappropriate conduct! i also think that the parents that let their children alone with MJ for these sleepovers should be held accountable too and it was a travesty that they were financially rewarded for not protecting their children.
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Old 07-12-2009, 11:55 AM
 
8,743 posts, read 10,273,174 times
Reputation: 3385
Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
I agree with the point your making.
MJ thought of himself to a degree as a child.
In his mind he didn't think he was crossing any
boundries. MJ loved children and they loved
him, inadvertently setting himself up for lawsuits
by parents who saw it as an opportunity to
make money.
Exactly.

I have been doing a lot of research on Michael Jackson these last weeks because of his death.

I will be the first to admit I was someone who was undecided when asked if I thought he was innocent or guilty but did lean toward guilty. However, after everything I see now and all the research I did, I can see for a fact that Michael Jackson was innocent.

I feel that his being a "two bit junkie" had a lot to do with pain. Both physical and emotional pain. Physical in the sense that he broke his nose and in the sense that he hurt his back and the plastic surgery. Emotional-because of his dad and he was hurt because of the child molestation cases. He did not know how to deal with the pain and when you're asleep...well...you don't know.

He had a hard time escaping. He could not sleep and get proper rest. That is how the drug problems began in my opinion.

But to not give him credit for being a great artist is just crazy. There was a post up there that said he did not have talent. I do not see how that can be said. I know people who are not his fans but still believe he was full of music and gift and he was.

To call him out for simply being a drug addict is not right, in my opinion. How come people are so quick to judge his bad actions but nobody ever points out the good he did? He brought smiles and joy to so many peoples lives through his music and moves. He donated hundreds of millions of dollars to charity that benefited children and humanity in general. Why doesn't he get credit for that? His music was much better and cleaner than the music my generation has.

Why is it always that when his name was brought up, it was "Ewww...he is a monster! He molested kids!"? Why not remember him for the good AND bad? It was bad he was a drug addict for sure-BUT can't we all learn from this? I know DARE (Drug abuse resistance education) programs are going to start using Michael Jackson as an example to educate what abusing drugs can do.

The good he did? Well, no need to go over that again. His music, his smile, his life and his performance and his daughters tears at his memorial showed me the good he brought to this world.

Rest in Peace, Michael Jackson.
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