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I should clarify that I don't support enabling people in their poverty. IMO private charity is the best recourse, but there aren't enough private charities to go around. And they tend to lose donations in a downturn--when people need them most. Hence I have no problem with some sort of governmental safety net to help people who fall on hard times. I'm also fine with stuff like Medicare and Social Security to help the elderly who gave so much to our society to begin with.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,018,776 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81
I should clarify that I don't support enabling people in their poverty. IMO private charity is the best recourse, but there aren't enough private charities to go around. And they tend to lose donations in a downturn--when people need them most. Hence I have no problem with some sort of governmental safety net to help people who fall on hard times. I'm also fine with stuff like Medicare and Social Security to help the elderly who gave so much to our society to begin with.
Reform the system, don't get rid of it.
I agree ... We need to focus more attention on governmental waste to maximize the benefits to the poor, disabled and elderly. Too much of our taxdollars are lining the pockets of bureaucrats who do nothing but push paper.
Preventing starvation among the citizenry is protecting life. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand. Is there abuse? sure. But bad things do happen to even the hardest working people. Hence, I support a safety net. As a christian, I cannot not support a safety net.
Your previous comment, which I answered, was not in regard to a 'safety net' but in regard to economic 'justice for the poor', which is often a code word for redistribution of wealth.
and btw food stamps rarely 'prevent starvation'. People find a way to find work, or live with relatives, or shut off the cable TV service to buy groceries when they really need to.
Show me figures how many people starve for lack of food stamps in the USA, or how many starved before there was food stamps.
It is a myth, and you shouldn't be afraid to call it what it is.
It's not an argument. Taxes are forced, that is fact. You should be ashamed of yourself for your lame attempt to argue that taxes are voluntary. Good lord, thats probably the most idiotic argument I've ever heard.
Most of the people who are truly poor in this country are poor because they don't choose to change their circumstances. Most of the people in the world who are poor and have no option out of poverty live in the third world. I am more than happy to give to the helpless but why should my tax dollars go to the lazy?
I should clarify that I don't support enabling people in their poverty. IMO private charity is the best recourse, but there aren't enough private charities to go around. And they tend to lose donations in a downturn--when people need them most. Hence I have no problem with some sort of governmental safety net to help people who fall on hard times. I'm also fine with stuff like Medicare and Social Security to help the elderly who gave so much to our society to begin with.
Reform the system, don't get rid of it.
The more government taxes the less people have for charitable work. In effect government has muscled out private charity, thinking they can do it better. But all they've done is create a permanent welfare class. But that serves their purpose. People who are dependent on you will vote for you.
Don't confuse Social Security and Medicare with welfare. Individuals and businesses have contributed handsomely to these trust funds and when they need it simply draw on what they've contributed. Unfortunately politicians have spent the trust fund (for which they all should be prosecuted) and all that's in the proverbial "lock box" is a 60-year accumulation of IOU's. But that's the subject of another post.
Welfare is paid out to prevent riots - because Christian charity has proven to be so stingy and judgmental - and greedy (Jim Baker).
What you call stingy I would call prudent. Assume you are the pastor of a church that has a welfare fund. It is not an inexhaustible supply. So you have to make decisions as to how to disburse these funds to achieve the greatest good possible. You can't give it willy nilly. That's not good stewardship.
As far as judgmental, you're absolutely right. Would you give money to someone you knew would use it for booze or drugs? As between the person who has fallen on hard times and needs help and the one who has the ability to help himself but won't to whom would you give? Paul counseled that he who will not work should not eat. In other words don't spend your charity on such. There are those who are more deserving. Plus when you give to a taker you just enable him in his sloth. Charity in such a case does more harm than good spiritually.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,018,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe
What you call stingy I would call prudent. Assume you are the pastor of a church that has a welfare fund. It is not an inexhaustible supply. So you have to make decisions as to how to disburse these funds to achieve the greatest good possible. You can't give it willy nilly. That's not good stewardship.
As far as judgmental, you're absolutely right. Would you give money to someone you knew would use it for booze or drugs? As between the person who has fallen on hard times and needs help and the one who has the ability to help himself but won't to whom would you give? Paul counseled that he who will not work should not eat. In other words don't spend your charity on such. There are those who are more deserving. Plus when you give to a taker you just enable him in his sloth. Charity in such a case does more harm than good spiritually.
and btw food stamps rarely 'prevent starvation'. People find a way to find work, or live with relatives, or shut off the cable TV service to buy groceries when they really need to..
Ah, no a lot of people are unable to work much less find it, have no relatives, and never had cable to begin with. Starvation while never wide spread (if one's vision of starvation is babies with swollen bellies is your only point of reference) the affects of malnutrition have indeed led to high rates of mortality in the U.S.
Please see pg, 387 Hunger, Malnutrition and Poverty in Contemporary United States.
It's not an argument. Taxes are forced, that is fact. You should be ashamed of yourself for your lame attempt to argue that taxes are voluntary. Good lord, thats probably the most idiotic argument I've ever heard.
How is the Constitution amended? What is the 16th Amendment. How does a representative democracy work?
If you can successfully answer all the above questions we might be able to determine who the actual idiot really is.
Quote:
Most of the people who are truly poor in this country are poor because they don't choose to change their circumstances.
38% of all elderly women live in poverty, what was their poor choice, letting their husband's die?
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,843,321 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
How is the Constitution amended? What is the 16th Amendment. How does a representative democracy work?
If you can successfully answer all the above questions we might be able to determine who the actual idiot really is.
38% of all elderly women live in poverty, what was their poor choice, letting their husband's die?
you know how a representative democracy works. mob rule. it's not rocket science. as for your theory of elderly women living in poverty, I am calling BS. no link, just fear mongering? live in poverty. I bet the same idiots who did that poll did the one that said like half of the children in the US are living in "hunger,"
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