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Old 07-16-2009, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Finland
721 posts, read 733,531 times
Reputation: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Baasially what we will see is rationed care;hospitals cutting staff because of cuts in payments;doctors cherry privating patients for same reason and the bill will still keep mounting just as medicare and medaicid has. If the house bill goes thur then we will see less investemnt in the economy because of the changed risk /reward changes and the senate bill will hurt small business. Just as there is no free lunch ;there is no free healthcare.
I gotta say.. you hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly what has happened here in FIN, where we have a government run healthcare system.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:15 PM
 
17,557 posts, read 6,908,929 times
Reputation: 4034
Quote:
Originally Posted by freefall View Post
Sick of ridiculous emergency room bills? If the private hospitals have to compete with free government clinics maybe they will be more reasonable. All the new hospitals and clinics need staff and we can train them here instead of import them. That is the most likely avenue for job creation, not 'green'.
I like that word "FREE". LOL It's freee!!! Who can possibly disagree with "free"??
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:16 PM
 
439 posts, read 251,059 times
Reputation: 71
But that's not all, you also get this Ginsu knife!
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:21 PM
 
35,000 posts, read 22,556,152 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
see, this is where you see silly idealism clash with reality. people arent going to go through what doctors go through because they are "gifted." you dont pay for it, you dont get the doctors.
Gifted doctors will and do, and are happy to. Greedy "doctors" are the ones who complain and are all about the money.

The Mayo Clinic is able to get by somehow without bankrupting patients. You might give this interesting article a look:

McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:23 PM
 
35,000 posts, read 22,556,152 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Vega View Post
I gotta say.. you hit the nail right on the head. This is exactly what has happened here in FIN, where we have a government run healthcare system.
Finland!


YouTube - Finlandia

I know this is a Swedish fellow but I always cast him in (my mind's) Finnish forests -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomte



</off-topic>
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 23,899,123 times
Reputation: 4808
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfields View Post
for example, HR 676 is paid for by increasing the Medicare tax 3% and 8% for the richest 5% of Americans.
AND, if someone does not pay medicare tax? Does not have job to have it deducted? Is self employed? Has opted out of SS/Medicare?

Then what? They get health insurance for free?
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:26 PM
 
17,557 posts, read 6,908,929 times
Reputation: 4034
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Gifted doctors will and do, and are happy to. Greedy "doctors" are the ones who complain and are all about the money.

The Mayo Clinic is able to get by somehow without bankrupting patients. You might give this interesting article a look:

McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker
There are not for profit co-op health care providers too, and they do very well, and they keep prices down. The reason they work so well is because the customers sit on the board, and make the decisions.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:32 PM
 
35,000 posts, read 22,556,152 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
There are not for profit co-op health care providers too, and they do very well, and they keep prices down. The reason they work so well is because the customers sit on the board, and make the decisions.
sounds like these traitorous commie bastards here:
I talked to Denis Cortese, the C.E.O. of the Mayo Clinic, which is among the highest-quality, lowest-cost health-care systems in the country. A couple of years ago, I spent several days there as a visiting surgeon. Among the things that stand out from that visit was how much time the doctors spent with patients. There was no churn—no shuttling patients in and out of rooms while the doctor bounces from one to the other. I accompanied a colleague while he saw patients. Most of the patients, like those in my clinic, required about twenty minutes. But one patient had colon cancer and a number of other complex issues, including heart disease. The physician spent an hour with her, sorting things out. He phoned a cardiologist with a question.

“I’ll be there,” the cardiologist said.

Fifteen minutes later, he was. They mulled over everything together. The cardiologist adjusted a medication, and said that no further testing was needed. He cleared the patient for surgery, and the operating room gave her a slot the next day.
The whole interaction was astonishing to me. Just having the cardiologist pop down to see the patient with the surgeon would be unimaginable at my hospital. The time required wouldn’t pay. The time required just to organize the system wouldn’t pay.

The core tenet of the Mayo Clinic is “The needs of the patient come first”—not the convenience of the doctors, not their revenues. The doctors and nurses, and even the janitors, sat in meetings almost weekly, working on ideas to make the service and the care better, not to get more money out of patients. I asked Cortese how the Mayo Clinic made this possible.

“It’s not easy,” he said. But decades ago Mayo recognized that the first thing it needed to do was eliminate the financial barriers. It pooled all the money the doctors and the hospital system received and began paying everyone a salary, so that the doctors’ goal in patient care couldn’t be increasing their income. Mayo promoted leaders who focussed first on what was best for patients, and then on how to make this financially possible.
McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:41 PM
 
786 posts, read 604,319 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Alas the internet is a tool like any other one must use ones brain. Sites such as the link I have provded are reputable.

Of NICE and Men - WSJ.com
Since you provided a link from a Wall Street Journal story, and not some internet blog I've never heard of, I'll assume that it's true. However, the UK spends 8.3% of it's GDP on health care. We pay 17%,of our GDP, more than twice what the UK pays. If the UK spent 17% of its GDP on UHC, they probably wouln't have to ration care. No system is perfect, but some perform better than others. The World Health Organization did a study comparing the overall performance of 190 countries health care systems; UK ranked #18 and the US ranked #37. France, which is the country that ranked #1, also has single-payer universal health care.
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Old 07-16-2009, 04:43 PM
 
786 posts, read 604,319 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
AND, if someone does not pay medicare tax? Does not have job to have it deducted? Is self employed? Has opted out of SS/Medicare?

Then what? They get health insurance for free?
Yes, and I think they should get it. Self employed people and people that opted out of Medicare would pay the taxes, just not the people that are unemployed.

Last edited by jfields; 07-16-2009 at 04:59 PM..
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