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Guess you have not read much of my posts elsewhere. I an not "Right wing" as you imply.
Second, snideness will get you know where, it just labels you as a jerk. Please change your wording to a more civilized attitude.
Please see the financial reports of all of the countries you listed above. They are GOING BROKE! The U.K. is in the beginings of a financial mess due to the payments they put out for Medical expense. They have a Goal of 20 week max wait time for proceedures. Japan is loosing hospitals at an alarming rate because the government will not pay more to keep them going. Germany's doctors are being burried under the bureaucratic paperwork that requires they must categorize and submit detailed accounts of treatments to an administrative clearinghouse for payment. I suggest that you remove the "rose colored glasses" and look at things from a more financial side of things. America has a population in the top 3 in the world, of course we are going to pay more for healthcare due to the simple fact we have more people. We also have a diversity not seen in other countries which bring in itself a much wider range of medical issues that effect different populations more than others. We have immigration problems that are not matched in the modern world. IT WILL NOT WORK. America will go BROKE if such a system is attempted. We cannot even keep Medicade or Medicare solvent which has more enroled in it than much of the world has enroled in a single payer health system. (39 million enroled in Medicaid) which is a higher number of people than live in Poland. IT WILL NOT WORK HERE
great points again. Medicare's prescription drug plan falls into the category of unfunded expenses for the gov't. they don't even have the money to fund it all, so it just increases the national debt. you know, that one that obama is doing his best to triple!!!
An increase in PCPs and free basic visits would lower ER visits (which have a greater number of more highly paid staff) allowing them to focus on true emergencies. By eliminating costs people could go in and get sicknesses taken care of before they progress to something requiring hospitalizations (thus taking productivity out of our economy). Simple illnesses and injuries allowed to progress can do this.
Ever heard the saying "an once of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Well, right now we have tens of millions of Americans opting for the latter. right there is wasted money that could be used to creat jobs.
No its not free, but we can certainly be getting more bang for our buck than the current system.
Are our roads free? What about our electrical grid and sewage? Or are you one of those people that live off the grid and you're using windmills to power your computer.
that's great in theory, but the american people still won't do it.
In the military, healthcare is free. you have access to doctors appt's. yet, when I worked in the ER in Alaska, about 75% of the people the ER saw, was routine stuff that could be handled in a doctor's office.
One commander even went so far as to make the ER triage the patients and if it wasn't an emergency, got them an appointment with their regular clinic.
they had the choice and still went to the ER because it was more convient.
Last edited by nrfitchett4; 07-18-2009 at 08:06 PM..
I think you should really think about this post. Who stands to gain from all of these problems? No drug competition from other countries (American pharmacueticals seem to be the big beneficiaries). No competing across state lines? (same thing, corporate America is the primary beneficiary of these laws)
Then think about the private health care lobbying. Its not government thats a problem with these. Its corporate manipulation of government.
so why haven't you voted your congressman and house members out of office for allowing this???
what do you think will happen to drug research when no one is paying market price for medications? These companies spend millions in research just to get one medication out there.
When I provide polls, they are for the purpose of using evidence to make a point. Canada's system works better than ours. The WHO says so. If you think I'm going to take the word of some right-wing lunatic on the internet over a credible worldwide organization, you've got another thing comming. If you read the passage that I cited from the Denver Post article, you'd realize that when Canada does send it's citizens to the US, the UHC covers it. THE CANADIANS GET TO USE OUR HOSPITALS FOR FREE, WHICH IS A RIGHT THAT WE DON'T EVEN HAVE!
ummm, most of the canadians than come here, pay out of pocket so they don't have to wait 6 months for a surgery that takes a week to get here. they don't even allow private insurance or for you to private pay in canada. you get fined for it.
there's a reason that all along the canadian border there are dialysis clinics and radiology offices....
Why are people that have a different opinion than yours lunatics???
Why not move to canada???
There's a reason that canadian doctors and nurses come here to work. To make a real living.
Yeah sure. That's why 47 million Americans don't have insurance, 62% of bankruptcies are due to unpaid medical bills and 20,000 people die every year in the US due to lack of health care. Let's see Shriners and Scottish Rite fix that.
will you please quit spewing the 47million number around that obama shoved up your butt. It has already been proven as misleading. The bankruptcy number is misleading as well. Over half of the 62% listed injury and illness has the primary reason for bankruptcy, not medical bills. So harvard threw them into that pot as well: PolitiFact | Medical bankruptcy study not so clear-cut
but hey, keep believing everything the gov't tells you instead of reading their sources to see if they are even telling the truth.
Yeah, if they have it. Those numbers should be 68% and 66% because 15% of Americans don't even have health care; they for damn sure aren't safisfied. By the way, do you have the original poll and what it said. There is alot of propaganda in the NY post editorials and everything written there should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not saying it's not true, but they have a way of manipulating statistics.
Sure we would. The reason that the hospitals charge so much now is because of the cycle that's created by having 47 million uninsured. Now that is a resource drainer.
and actually, hospitals get gov't money for taking care of uninsured, so in a way, the gov't is already paying hospitals for uninsured. Now they want another 1-2 trillion to finish the job.
Last edited by nrfitchett4; 07-18-2009 at 08:07 PM..
Yes, I find this part of the "plan" very perplexing. Obama says this plan will provide more care and better care for everyone, and it will cost less. How on earth can any of you swallow such a blatant contradiction of reality. It's like saying I can build you a newer, better house and it will be cheaper than the one you have now. This mix of words just doesn't compute, plain and simple.
Also, I keep hearing the words "public option" How can you call a mandatory plan an option? Are any of you asking yourselves these questions too? This is just the latest attempt by our government to take more control of our lives and force us to do what they want. Funny how they really got fired up about healthcare right after they gained a large interest in AIG, one of the largest insurance providers in the world. And hey, wasn't that tax payer money that saved AIG? Well hell, we don't need to be taxed for healthcare. We already own our own insurance multi national. And I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any returns on my investment yet. I guess they can just keep it and pay for any medical costs I have come up.
Oh, and while I am thinking about it, isn't it funny how we are going to be taxed to pay off the stimulus bill that came from our tax money? I didn't know it worked like that. So we allow the government to lend our money to all these corporations and banks to help them out, and then we pay our own money back into the system. Hey, whatever works right.
Have you heard Nasty Nancy lately talking about the taxes they plan to charge to pay for Healthcare. She says if we take in more than we need we can use the excess to pay down the debt. It just makes one wonder if that woman has an ounce of intelligence, and yet, Dems listen to her as if they thought she knew her way out of the morass.
Did you even read this whole article? It's saying that the French have a good system.
In 2000, health care experts for the World Health Organization tried to do a statistical ranking of the world's health care systems. They studied 191 countries and ranked them on things like the number of years people lived in good health and whether everyone had access to good health care. France came in first. The United States ranked 37th. Some researchers, however, said that study was flawed, arguing that there might be things other than a country's health care system that determined factors like longevity. So this year, two researchers at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine measured something called the "amenable mortality." Basically, it's a measure of deaths that could have been prevented with good health care. The researchers looked at health care in 19 industrialized nations. Again, France came in first. The United States was last.
So there were 2 studies. The one that I've cited that has France at #1 and the US at #37 and another one that has France at #1 and has the US at #19 (last place). They sure are doing something right that we aren't.
In France, everyone has health care. However, unlike in Britain and Canada, there are no waiting lists to get elective surgery or see a specialist, Dutton says.
Wow, no uninsured, no waits; sounds good to me.
The system is set up both to ensure that patients have lots of choice in picking doctors and specialists and to ensure that doctors are not constrained in making medical decisions.
In other words, contrary to what Rick Scott would like you to believe, there are no bureaucrats standing between you and your doctor. It also looks like there are no insurance companies standing between you and your doctor either. Wish we had this in the US.
"There are no uninsured in France," says Victor Rodwin, a professor of health policy at New York University, who is affiliated with the International Longevity Center. "That's completely unheard of. There is no case of anybody going broke over their health costs. In fact, the system is so designed that for the 3 or 4 or 5 percent of the patients who are the very sickest, those patients are exempt from their co-payments to begin with. There are no deductibles." Treating The Sickest In France, the sicker you are, the more coverage you get. For people with one of 30 long-term and expensive illnesses — such as diabetes, mental illness and cancer — the government picks up 100 percent of their health care costs, including surgeries, therapies and drugs.
So France gives the best coverage to the sick because the sick are going to have more hospital bills and France wants to make sure that everyone has all of their health care needs met. So they prioritize the sick. In the US, the sick are the last ones to get their health care needs met. When they get sick, the insurance company just finds an excuse to dump them or they raise the fees so high, the sick person can't pay and has to dump his/her insurance. If you have a pre-existing condition, they wont even insure you. This is why 62% of bankruptcies are from unpaid medical bills.
When compared with people in other countries, the French live longer and healthier lives. Rodwin says that's because good care starts at birth. There are months of paid job leave for mothers who work. New mothers get a child allowance. There are neighborhood health clinics for new mothers and their babies, home visits from nurses and subsidized day care.
No ****? No thanks, I don't want freedom fries with my burger.
It's expensive to provide this kind of health care and social support. France's health care system is one of the most expensive in the world. But it is not as expensive as the U.S. system, which is the world's most costly. The United States spends about twice as much as France on health care. In 2005, U.S. spending came to $6,400 per person. In France, it was $3,300. To fund universal health care in France, workers are required to pay about 21 percent of their income into the national health care system. Employers pick up a little more than half of that. (French employers say these high taxes constrain their ability to hire more people.) Americans don't pay as much in taxes. Nonetheless, they end up paying more for health care when one adds in the costs of buying insurance and the higher out-of-pocket expenses for medicine, doctors and hospitals.
So France does all of this for about half of what we pay in the US. By the way, they don't pay 21% of their income for health care like you said; they pay about 10.5% and the employer pays about 10.5%. The French pay higher taxes but if you want to count the premiums, co-pays and deductibles as a tax, (after all this is money that we have no choice but to spend) the French pay less.
It looks like the French are doing a very good job. Mabye if we implemented these ideas into our system, it would be as good, or mabye even better, than the French system. After all, we pay twice as much as they do. Why is it that we get so much less?
so why haven't you voted your congressman and house members out of office for allowing this???
what do you think will happen to drug research when no one is paying market price for medications? These companies spend millions in research just to get one medication out there.
Most people that I call libs don't understand how many millions or even billions of dollars the pharmas spend developing new medicines. Somehow they think that those people just make the new ones without any kind of research. I guess if they ever have their way they will wonder why no new meds come out of where they are researched today.
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