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you get owned every time you start one of these threads, mo. i'm pretty certain that the only people that willingly walk into public humiliation as often as you do are some kind of social masochist; but maybe you're just the real lunatic and you are projecting it on to the dogs and the owners.
so, what part of this article was it that you wanted "lunatic pit bull defenders to hear? that a dog owner did the right thing and killed two aggressive dogs?
that another dog owner didn't do the right thing and allowed his dogs to run free?
that two dogs did what instinct tells them to do when inadequately trained and handled, and attacked a dog that did not belong to their pack or territory?
or just (as i am guessing that you hadn't even analyzed the article in that kind of depth yet) that there was yet another pit bull attack in the media?
i'm gonna help you out, since you seem incapable of helping yourself out regarding animal issues.
if you want to come into a debate about pit bulls (or anything else, but we'll stick with your seeming obsession for illustrative purposes), try doing it from a rational standpoint instead of an irrational one.
since you are no doubt scratching your head in confusion now, a rational standpoint would be one devoid of insults, generalizations, emotional breakdowns, and other logical pitfalls.
simply put, your usual irrational tantrums don't give you any credibility at all, and prove that you don't know how to critically analyze a situation, don't know how to successfully make an argument, don't know how to interact intelligently with other people, and lack the common sense to even try.
now, i'm also going to help you out a little with some actual concerns that you might be able to address regarding pit bulls, because your mainstream locking-jaws, bloodshot-eyes, foaming-at-the-mouth hysteria doesn't have any basis in reality.
here are two just from the research paper that i am writing for a class:
Marder, A., (n.d.). Are Pit Bulls Different? (Abstract). Abstract retrieved July 2, 2009, from ABSTRACTS FOR IFAAB 2006
This paper details the findings of a study done to investigate different types of canine aggression by breed. this study found that pit bulls were less human aggressive than many other breeds, but were more dog aggressive, and were more reactive to common triggers than many other dog breeds. this last trait could potentially account for many instances of human attacks in a dog that is not by nature human aggressive.
Shuler, C. M., Debess, E. E., Lapidus, J. A., & Hedberg, K. (2008). Canine and human factors related to dog bite injuries. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, 232(4), 542-546.
This study found that breeds other than rottweilers and pit bulls might actually be responsible for higher rates of dog attacks and fatal dog attacks, but that attacks by pit bulls might actually be more because of instinct than environment.
i am sure that if you do some homework, you could find some others. realize though, that this kind of homework will expose you to the plethora of information out there that destroys your old arguments, and if approached from a rational viewpoint will unhinge your prejudice for this dog. so if you don't want to lose that irrational hatred for the dogs and the dog owners, then i wouldn't suggest doing any intelligent research on the subject; i'd just stick to media accounts and forum temper tantrums.
And what about those that adopted them because they were on the top of the euthenization list at their local shelter??? That's where I got my pit bull.
Got kids?
An 11-month-old Eastpointe child was killed inside a home April 22 when he was mauled by the family pit bull. The animal was shot by the boy's father.
1–implants do not have any beneficial purpose except for (debatable) some self confidence (but when your confidence is tied to your rack size, you have issues that you are not even addressing that are going to blow up in your face one day), and attractiveness to males in order to reproduce and further the species (also debatable, because big breasts are not universally desired by men, and add only temporary "attractive" qualities before becoming the sagging, oozing, pus-filled, cancerous garbage bags that they are).
2–pit bulls are dogs, and have very many useful purposes, despite your claim to the contrary. pit bulls, like any other dogs, have great hunting instincts, great guarding instincts, great pack instincts that make them awesome family pets, and can be trained to do anything from therapy for sick kids to bomb sniffing.
so much for your lazy theory about zero purpose. do some homework and critical analysis before you blunder into a debate next time. if you want to be an angry tax payer about anything, be mad at the public school system that failed you–or at least be mad at yourself since you didn't take advantage of what they were trying to teach you.
3–all dogs are "possibly" dangerous. in fact, all dogs are dangerous–dogs are predators. in fact (this could go on for a while...) all dogs are wolves. dogs are canis lupus familiaris (this is 5th grade biology by the way, so shame on you), a subspecies of the gray wolf (though scientists have recently found evidence that they are in fact subspecies of many different subspecies of wolves from all over the world). in fact, domesticated dogs are realy just domesticated wolves (that includes your yorkie).
further, these aggressive, territorial, predatory, pack-hunting, "dangerous" traits were the primarily desired traits that early man wanted to refine and strengthen when first setting out to domesticate wolves and feral dogs. it was specifically the same things that make them dangerous that they were desired for, and still are.
territoriality makes them awesome guard dogs, which is still, after thousands of years of social evolution, one of their primary tasks. predatory nature makes them awesome hunting companions, retrievers, and again, guard dogs. pack-social behavior makes them uniquely fit to adapt to family life among humans. last but not least, aggression allows them to excel at all of these tasks, which they have done for thousands of years. there is arguably no other animal domesticated by mankind that has become so closely tied to man's existence and daily life.
unfortunately for your unfounded theory, that includes pit bulls.
4–if we want to talk about something that has zero purpose, it would be introducing bias based on lack of personal experience into an argument. you don't have a use for pit bulls, and therefore you expect that no one else could or should either.
5–on top of that, you swallow the media-endorsed koolaid with all of the noxious chemicals in them (probably attained by juicing freshly harvested breast implants), and use that to base your bias off of. it is evident with your idea that pit bulls are "dangerous dogs," which implies that you hold the ignorant view that other dogs aren't dangerous.
and lastly, it is this mentality (that pits are dangerous and other breeds aren't) that gets kids hurt, because it is this mentality that decides that it is then ok to do stupid things like leave toddlers with golden retrievers and pugs, because they don't own a "dangerous dog." it is this mentality that tries to treat dogs of any breed as if they were little, furry humans, and that then gets someone hurt, whether it is a dog, a child, or an adult.
so shame on you. crack a book once in a while and stop forcing your ignorance on the rest of humanity.
aaron out.
She knew it wasn't a joke when she saw Lowe lying in the doorway of the mobile home with a pair of bloody pit bulls hovering nearby.
I agree I don't understand why anyone would want a dangerous dog...but what does that have to with a breed? 99% of pitbulls are family dogs and never show any sign of aggression.
"Normal" family dogs do not attack and kill children because the child may be holding a stuffed animal.
I've kept a few bulldog breeds in my time. They are dangerous because their jaws, teeth and tenacity makes it a serious injury if they attack.
The owners are at fault, not the dogs. I know you've got a hard on for this subject, but you must rationally understand this.
Do you have such an arousal for German Shepherds? Why not? Believe me, they will tear you up as quick as a bull breed.
Sorry if you were hurt by a particular dog and now find it your mission in life to condemn the lot of them....but you sound quite irrational.
Wasn't me. I was nipped by an afghan hound when a teen-ager, no big deal. The boy my nieces play with (Trever, then five) was attacked by a family dog that happened to be a pitbull. No warning was given. It simply latched onto the boy's face. He will have scares on his face for the rest of his life and is fortunate to be alive.
This is what I find rational. Once a child or elderly person is killed by one or more of these dogs, fault is academic. The children who are killed in this manner or permanently disfigured have their lives destroyed because a moron wants to intimidate others. They depend on the reputation of these dogs to make up for their own sense of personal inadequacy. You can say that isn't the case until you're blue in the face but it won't change the facts. These people could purchase or adopt any breed of dog, but they will chose pitbulls every time. They depend on these dogs in the same way an alcoholic depends on alcohol. They will make every excuse for continuing their dangerous and destructive behavior because, like the pitbull owners, they are hiding. I personally wouldn't care what they do if it were not the most vulnerable members of society being harmed and often killed.
You already showed on the other thread that you don't know what a pitbull is and couldn't identify one of your life depended on it. We also proved that 75% of these stories like your link are not pibulls but a completely different t breed. I guess ignorance is bliss cause instead of proving your point and defending you're links, you disappear and then reappear (not to refute all that has been provided, but to post more nonsense).
Yeah, I know buddy. We all misunderstand your dogs. We don't even know what a pitbull looks like. The news media, the police, the victims, we're all out to make you dogs villains, or it's the owners fault for making the pitbull dangerous, or maybe we are under the misconception that this violent behavior is organic. Yep, it is everyone else.
The question is, with hundreds of great dog breeds available, why do you need a pitbull? What motivates you to desire this breed, and no others, to the point that you would risk a child's life by owning one?
too many gang bangers let their pit bulls attack children and unarmed people, its not the breed its the owners.
Sorry, but the statistics prove you completely wrong. There are very few instances where other breeds are involved. Pit Bulls, while they can be docile friendly dogs if breed and raised right, are the exception. Most are aggressive by nature, and have no place in our society.
The only time you hear of other breeds behaving as such is when they are trained to be aggressive, or are abused by the scum that owns them.
"Normal" family dogs do not attack and kill children because the child may be holding a stuffed animal.
Dogs Bite Blog: 2009 Fatality: 3-Year Old Gabrial Mandrell-Sauerhage Killed by Family Dogs - DogsBite.org
you don't realize it, but you are making my point for me and proving yourself incapable of critical thinking.
i'm going to ignore for a moment the fact that we are arguing science and you are arguing journalistic opinion and just focus on the debate. if this were a real world debate, you would have lost pathetically. you rely almost entirely upon emotional response and news articles–that's it. you ignore everything we say and keep posting the same old news stories, and many of them are not even current. if pit bull attacks were an epidemic as you try to make them out to be, why do you need to resort to articles from two and five years ago? there should be hundreds across the country every day.
we tell you that all dogs are dangerous–they are WOLVES for crying out loud–and you ignore us because it doesn't fit your agenda, and/or you don't have a response to it.
we tell you that most pit bulls (same with most other dogs) live their entire lives without ever having a problem, and you ignore it for the above reasons.
we refute your news articles with the fact that many "pit bull" attacks end up being weimaraner, schnauzer, pug, and ferret attacks, and what do you do? big surprise–you ignore it.
i've even resorted to showing you news articles about poodle attacks and fatal chow maulings, etc, but you ignore those too.
you don't have an argument, mo, but like this mythological monster pit bull that you have created, you are in frenzy-attack mode and don't know when you're alive and when you're dead.
as far as debate and critical analysis is concerned, you were the victim of self-euthanization long ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Wasn't me. I was nipped by an afghan hound when a teen-ager, no big deal.
actually, it is a big deal. this is a huge point that you keep ignoring (at least you're being consistent)–dogs that bite humans lack training and a dominant alpha figure. it might not have been a big deal to you (in your ignorance at the time), but when that afghan turns around and bites the head off of a baby, it turns into a big deal.
when people like you make the mistake of assuming that only pit bulls are dangerous, you put other people in danger by your resultant treatment and lax discipline of the "peaceful" dogs that you own. i don't know whether you have dogs or kids or not, but for the love of humanity, since you can't even understand this comment, stay away from them.
Quote:
The boy my nieces play with (Trever, then five) was attacked by a family dog that happened to be a pitbull. No warning was given. It simply latched onto the boy's face. He will have scares on his face for the rest of his life and is fortunate to be alive.
that is sad. it is also true of any other breed that mauls a kid–most of them will have scars the rest of their lives, and other breeds are known for suddenly attacking with no prior warning. find another talking point.
Quote:
This is what I find rational. Once a child or elderly person is killed by one or more of these dogs, fault is academic.
maybe i'm dense, but can someone tell me what mo means by this? i even googled "academic fault" to make sure that i wasn't missing out on some philosophy that i haven't yet been exposed to.
my guess (correct me if i'm wrong, mo) is that you mean once a person has been killed by a dog, it is the fault of the breed. am i right?
well, i would disagree with that assessment, but in the interest of debate, i will listen (well, read really...) while you try to prove it to me. go on, tell me why that works, and why it should or shouldn't apply to other breeds. what about the yorkie that killed the baby–is that the breed's fault? shepherd fatal attacks? poodles?
Quote:
The children who are killed in this manner or permanently disfigured have their lives destroyed because a moron wants to intimidate others.
you are generalizing pit bull owners again. not all of us like pit bulls because of how kewl they are. but you can't even get that right after months and months and multiple posts that testify to the contrary. it is like arguing with a broken record.
Quote:
They depend on the reputation of these dogs to make up for their own sense of personal inadequacy.
adding insult to generalization now, because you don't have an actual argument. the only reason these dogs have a reputation is because of hysterics from people like you. in ten years, your club will have moved on to malamutes or something else and we'll be fighting this battle all over again.
Quote:
You can say that isn't the case until you're blue in the face but it won't change the facts.
hold the phone. did you just use that sentence about facts in relation to your generalizations?
"it won't change the facts that people own pit bulls to intimidate others and to make up for their own personal inadequacy."
you really think that those are facts? my hell, you are more lost than i'd given you credit for. on what planet do those stand in for facts? do you even know what a fact is? a fact is kind of the exact opposite of your logically fallacious "reasoning."
Quote:
These people could purchase or adopt any breed of dog, but they will chose pitbulls every time.
now you are pretending that you can read minds as well as successfully generalize an entirely diverse portion of the population. gonna try to claim this to be fact too?
my family owned a border collie before our current dog, a retriever before that. my wife is considering getting a second dog, and she wants either a little dog like a mini poodle or something, or a lab or retriever.
there are people that only adopt pits, just as there are people that only adopt bloodhounds or whippets.
everyone has their ideal dog, and pit owners are not any different. before you go off again about how lunatic they must be in order to desire a pit bull, they are just dogs (which are wolves), have fairly standard dog skills, dog behavior, etc.
Quote:
They depend on these dogs in the same way an alcoholic depends on alcohol. They will make every excuse for continuing their dangerous and destructive behavior because, like the pitbull owners, they are hiding. I personally wouldn't care what they do if it were not the most vulnerable members of society being harmed and often killed.
"often" doesn't even begin to adhere to reality. one of the studies i showed you said that other dog breeds are likely to attack more often and attack fatally more often, and that was even one of the studies that supports your idea that pit bull aggression might be more inherently genetic than other dogs.
you just don't realize the fact that pit bulls are today's media scapegoat. it'll be another breed tomorrow, and then you will jump on that bandwagon too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Yeah, I know buddy. We all misunderstand your dogs. We don't even know what a pitbull looks like. The news media, the police, the victims, we're all out to make you dogs villains, or it's the owners fault for making the pitbull dangerous, or maybe we are under the misconception that this violent behavior is organic. Yep, it is everyone else.
The question is, with hundreds of great dog breeds available, why do you need a pitbull? What motivates you to desire this breed, and no others, to the point that you would risk a child's life by owning one?
why do you need a yorkie? why an alsatian? why a dalmatian? why a poodle? they have all killed people? they are all aggressive animals that instinctively hunt and kill, so why them?
i'll be here, mo, if you ever decide to actually debate anything, if you ever decide to actually answer questions and challenges instead of ignoring everything or just picking one point out of a list of thirty and writing some nonsensical, tangential response that floated out of your rear end and over your shoulder.
but i'm not expecting much from you; my money is on the fact that you'll keep relying on your trusty insult-generalize-no-research-news-archive tactic. it's the trick this dog knows, i think.
I have many friends with pit bulls, they are all sweet dogs, slobbering, goofy friendly sweet dogs.
Just like bad dog owners, many people raise their kids to be drug addicts, gang bangers, dealers, lawyers and all other sorts of scumbags, perhaps we are just reaching critical mass for human population and need a bit of culling if we are going to continue to live together on this planet.
Oh, and good for that Boy Scout.
Last edited by ecvMatt; 07-24-2009 at 10:24 AM..
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