How's Everybody feel about the "change" so far? (employment, health care system)
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obama was always in bed with the lobbyists and nothing has changed. he just has the power to implement the corporate lobbyist vision for america. you might want to read obama's money cartel by a former wall street reporter on line.
I've read various things about Obama's connections to big money special interests, although I don't know if I've read the specific story that yor mentioned? Do you have a link that you can provide me with? I'd like to check the story out.
I'm not trying to dispute any previous connectons that Obama has had; I'm sure he's got skeletons in his closet just like any other politician. What I was saying is that he's moved to the right and the reason is that almost all the pressure he's getting is from the right, not the left. Too many progressives are cheerleading for him. If they'd stop cheerleading and hold his feet to the fire, I bet you that Obama's agenda would be more progressive.
I'm from the far left and feel that Obama must be alot more progressive. I've been to 10 foreign countries, (China, Finland, Mexico, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Venezuela, Argentina, Uraguay, Paraguay, Chile) I have lived in Chile (a right-wing hellhole) 3 times and I unfortunately live in Chile right now. My experiences abroad have made me realize that I used to take alot of things that any American has for granted and have assured me even more about the negative effects that right-wing policies have.
Hmmmmm.............................. if those places are so great, what brought you here? Why not leave America alone in those aspects that you desire in foriegn nations and just live there? There are enough authoritarian socialist countries in the world, but only one US. Let's leave the US free for anyone in the world who still has initiative and a desire to improve themselves. If you can't compete, live in a socialist country.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,746,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla
You need to go and visit another country, almost any other counry and you may get an idea of how to answer your question. There is a new generation in this country that because their primary exposure has been to leftist indoctrination of the public schools system and an inability to think for themselves has resulted in failure to realize the blessing of being an enculturated American. It is sad for you.
I am damn near a half century old and probably was in foreign nations before you was even an embryo. So please tell me what the "American way of life" is. How is it different than- say the German way of life or the Canadian way of life since I am most familiar with those countries?? The only difference I see is that we waste alot more in this country.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,746,901 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfields
I don't think this is necessarily true. For example in 2002 he was against the Iraq war and in 2003 he said that he supported single-payer health care. He has turned to the right and here's why. The corporations, their lobbyists and right wing interest groups are putting alot of pressure on Obama to support their interests. On the other hand, most progressives are chearleading for Obama instead of holding his feet to the fire, making sure he carries out his promises, and forcing him to make his agenda more progressive. This is the main reason Obama is doing what he's doing; he's caving into pressure on the right and from the corporate elite. We need to be pressuring him so that he caves into the pressure of the left and develops a more progressive agenda.
I saw an interview with Cornell West the other day. He mentioned that Lincoln was in favor of slavery, but due to pressure from people like Fredrick Douglass and the abolitionist movement he became the Lincoln that we all remember; the Lincoln that freed the slaves. What we need today are more movements and people like Fredrick Douglass and the abolitionist movement instead of a bunch of progressive Obama cheerleaders.
I like him and I am still giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I am beginning to get the impression that the Democrats just think they can take us liberals for granted and they had better wake up and smell the coffee. We CAN stay home in 2010 and 2012 for that matter. Come election time, the corporate class will not be there for the Democrats. They will go home to the GOP where they fit in.
Hmmmmm.............................. if those places are so great, what brought you here?.
Because I'm an American. What, you don't think I've got a right to be in my own country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Why not leave America alone in those aspects that you desire in foriegn nations and just live there? There are enough authoritarian socialist countries in the world, but only one US. Let's leave the US free for anyone in the world who still has initiative and a desire to improve themselves. If you can't compete, live in a socialist country.
Ok, most of the countries I've mentioned fit into 1 of 2 categories:
1) Their government is to the right of the United States government.
2) Due to years of right wing governments that helped the rich get richer at the expense of the poor, there are huge wealth inequalities. To show you how large the inequalities really are, the US has a Gini index of 40; these countries have Gini indexes between 50 and 60. In other words, their politics are a class war. These countries have elected populists from the left, such as Ortega, Morales and Chavez because their policies help the poor. Being that in these countries almost 80 percent of the people are poor, even iff these leaders **** off about 1/4th of the poor, they still get elected rather easily.
Like I said, I currently live in Chile. Chile is not quite as poor as some of these other countries but it is very poor nevertheless. Overall, the Chilean government is to the right of the American government. The reasons why Chile is still an underdeveloped country are because of very low wages, anti-union labor laws, low taxes and not enough social spending. Bachelet, who politically is very similar to Obama, has moved Chile a step in the right direction but, nevertheless, it's a baby step.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
Let's leave the US free for anyone in the world who still has initiative and a desire to improve themselves..
There are 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States that left their families, their and their cultures behind, swam accross the Rio Grande, hiked through the desert or paid a coyote to sneak into the US because they have a desire to improve themselves. I'm sure there are many more that would like to come here as well. If you really believe in the comment that you made, you'd want the ones that are here now to be able to stay and you'd allow even more illegal immigrants to keep comming after that. Do you support this?
I like him and I am still giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I am beginning to get the impression that the Democrats just think they can take us liberals for granted and they had better wake up and smell the coffee. We CAN stay home in 2010 and 2012 for that matter. Come election time, the corporate class will not be there for the Democrats. They will go home to the GOP where they fit in.
Exactly But don't stay home in 2010 and 2012. If you can't stand the Democratic or Repulican candidate, vote for a 3rd party candidate. Obama is actually the first candidate from a major party that I've voted for in a presidential election. I volunteered for him as well. I knew that I wouldn't like alot of decisions that he made, but I knew that there was a stark difference between him and McCain and that Obama was clearly the better candidate. Although I've got some serious problems with some of his policies, I don't regret voting and volunteering for him at all. We are much better off with Obama than we would have been with McCain. If your Congressperson or Senator is a corporate Democrat, look and see if there is a progressive running against them in the primary. If so, you can volunteer for them, donate money to them and vote for them. I did this with a candidate for my congressional district before I moved to Chile and I ended up becoming good friends with the guy.
What we need to be doing is writing and calling the White House and letting Obama know that we gave him his job and that he can't take our support for granted. We let him know where we stand on the issues and we tell him that he needs to enact the progressive reforms that we want if we're going to vote for him and volunteer for him in 2012. If we do this in large enough numbers, he will move to the left.
I'm from the far left and feel that Obama must be alot more progressive. I've been to 10 foreign countries, (China, Finland, Mexico, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Venezuela, Argentina, Uraguay, Paraguay, Chile) I have lived in Chile (a right-wing hellhole) 3 times and I unfortunately live in Chile right now. My experiences abroad have made me realize that I used to take alot of things that any American has for granted and have assured me even more about the negative effects that right-wing policies have.
The positive effect of right wing policies as you call them is that it has provided you the freedom to live in Chile, the means to live in Chile. Maybe that is where you belong?
Exactly But don't stay home in 2010 and 2012. If you can't stand the Democratic or Repulican candidate, vote for a 3rd party candidate. Obama is actually the first candidate from a major party that I've voted for in a presidential election. I volunteered for him as well. I knew that I wouldn't like alot of decisions that he made, but I knew that there was a stark difference between him and McCain and that Obama was clearly the better candidate. Although I've got some serious problems with some of his policies, I don't regret voting and volunteering for him at all. We are much better off with Obama than we would have been with McCain. If your Congressperson or Senator is a corporate Democrat, look and see if there is a progressive running against them in the primary. If so, you can volunteer for them, donate money to them and vote for them. I did this with a candidate for my congressional district before I moved to Chile and I ended up becoming good friends with the guy.
What we need to be doing is writing and calling the White House and letting Obama know that we gave him his job and that he can't take our support for granted. We let him know where we stand on the issues and we tell him that he needs to enact the progressive reforms that we want if we're going to vote for him and volunteer for him in 2012. If we do this in large enough numbers, he will move to the left.
Count me out. Not in favor of the progressive way of thinking.
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But don't stay home in 2010 and 2012. If you can't stand the Democratic or Repulican candidate, vote for a 3rd party candidate. Obama is actually the first candidate from a major party that I've voted for in a presidential election. I volunteered for him as well. I knew that I wouldn't like alot of decisions that he made, but I knew that there was a stark difference between him and McCain and that Obama was clearly the better candidate. Although I've got some serious problems with some of his policies, I don't regret voting and volunteering for him at all. We are much better off with Obama than we would have been with McCain. If your Congressperson or Senator is a corporate Democrat, look and see if there is a progressive running against them in the primary. If so, you can volunteer for them, donate money to them and vote for them. I did this with a candidate for my congressional district before I moved to Chile and I ended up becoming good friends with the guy.
