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Old 04-22-2007, 10:26 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,297,415 times
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Actually, if one charts the fat years and the lean years as against which party has occupied the White House, you'll find that things tend to go better with your friendly neighborhood D at the helm. For all but the wealthiest, for example, those Bushie tax cuts have all been eaten up by the increased costs of ARM's, equity-lines, and credit in general. And if you cross out all the many flows that effectively offset each other, what you've got left over is dollars that aren't in your wallet because they went to fund the spectacular success that is Iraq. What a good idea that was...

Last edited by saganista; 04-22-2007 at 10:27 AM.. Reason: word omission
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Naples
1,247 posts, read 698,182 times
Reputation: 344
We're screwed, regardless of who's elected.

Republicans will continue to allow jobs to shipped overseas and cheap illegal immigrant labor to enter this country. All the while, we'll get the usual fearmongering rhetoric regarding terrorism and socialism.

Democrats will do no better. They've sold us out, as well. They just sold us out to different people.
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Old 04-22-2007, 11:05 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
57,978 posts, read 40,715,064 times
Reputation: 29669
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Gasoline is still dirty. It's just a lot better than what it was before. Diesel too could no doubt be cleaned up in time. But there is the concurrent question of whether investment in petroleum-based paradigms is appropriate at all at this point.


.

Gasoline seems pretty clean now, according to my last state inspection not even enough CO to do harm For transportation needs maybe bio-diesel will prove viable.

And for stationary needs I'd hope we'll be seeing more use of wind and hydro energy, at least they elominate those pesky arabs.
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:01 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,219,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
I'm a multiple diesel car and truck owner, with over 1million miles on diesel powered cars since 1972 (MB's, Peugeots, BMW's, and Audi's), and over 200,000 on light duty pickups (Ford/IHC, powerstrokes, and Dodge/Cummins). I've have to disagree with the "2 times the fuel economy" assessment above.

My MB 1972 115 chassis cars, for example .... a 230 gas powered car vs a 220D, yielded a fuel economy difference of 24 mpg vs 31 mpg. The diesel was decidedly slower, but it did run for almost 400,000 miles before being retired.

There's about 15-20% more energy in a gallon of petroleum based diesel fuel compared to good quality gasoline. Hence the improved fuel economy when measured per gallon of fuel consumed.

Our experience on running "bio-diesel" is that it's closer in energy content to gasoline than diesel fuel, with a subsequent drop in fuel mileage per gallon in our cars and trucks. I have a friend with a fleet of Peterbilts, and he has the same experience with biodiesel .... loss of fuel economy. OTOH, it is a renewable resource fuel, which can be made from many vegetable sources.

My Peugeot 505 TurboDiesels yielded 33-34 mpg, my 504D station wagon about 35 mpg, and my 504 sedans almost 38.

My Audi diesel customers got mostly mid 30's, and my VW Rabbit Diesel customers got consistently around 50-52 mpg. That was back in the 1970's! While emissions have constantly been improved on the diesels, fuel economy has gone up, too.
Try catching up with the current world. Your stuck in the 70’s where the technology was no where near today’s standards.
My 2003 VW Jetta gets 46.5 MPG city/hwy and over 50 hwy and that’s at “real world” highway speeds not some BS they use for the hybrids. My Jetta out performs any similar displacement gas engine, and delivers much better milage. All this with all the creature comforts demanded by today’s car buyer.
Today’s diesel is the only real solution to the current oil problem.
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:42 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,297,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Gasoline seems pretty clean now, according to my last state inspection not even enough CO to do harm For transportation needs maybe bio-diesel will prove viable.
Yes, you know things have gotten a lot better re gasoline when evaporation from spillage is on the problems-with-it list. And bio-fuels generally can serve as a transition source of transportation energy if we work at it some. I suspect that long-term some entirely different paradigm will emerge, but that will depend on factors and discoveries that we don't even know about yet. The bottom line that I see is that we have very serious long-term energy problems and that there is no way that we'll avoid at least a doubling in near-term unit-costs for transportation energy. That would be the equivalent of gasoline at $6 a gallon today, and I really don't see how we'll avoid seeing that and worse within rather scant numbers of years. We'll just need to get used to that idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And for stationary needs I'd hope we'll be seeing more use of wind and hydro energy, at least they elominate those pesky arabs.
Yeah, the Arabs etc. in general aren't being all that helpful. Taking them out of the equation would be a good idea, but it's actually a reliance on petro-fuels at all that has to go. Using them just to go to the store or to work or to the lake is something we won't be able to afford for very much longer. In theory, the situation on other energy should be better. Wind and hydro can cetainly play a part, as can solar and geothermal on regional bases. We could up our nuclear component as well if we could deal a little better with waste issues. But still, we need to fund some significant basic research into outside-the-box ideas (not to mention the electricity grid). We are actually awash in a sea of energy. There must be technolgies by which we can harvest some of that for efficient human use...
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:50 PM
 
8,632 posts, read 9,142,308 times
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Totally depends on who wins in 08, including if dems control congress or if republicans win it back! the economy is a big old battleship it doesnt turn on a dime, so it will keep humming along after the election, but if dems raise taxes and start mandating some of this global warming bs, its gone crash and hard!
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Haddington, E. Lothian, Scotland
752 posts, read 616,366 times
Reputation: 175
Who knows? From a position of pure self-interest all I can hope for is a president that will keep running the US deficit into the stratosphere. The cheaper the American Peso gets, the fatter my account gets.

Come on, $3 to the pound!
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:16 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
57,978 posts, read 40,715,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FistFightingHairdresser View Post
Who knows? From a position of pure self-interest all I can hope for is a president that will keep running the US deficit into the stratosphere. The cheaper the American Peso gets, the fatter my account gets.

Come on, $3 to the pound!


And then you may see a bunch of yank emigres on your doorstep, careful what you wish for, you might get it
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Old 04-22-2007, 04:00 PM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,297,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen View Post
I was wondering what do you think the U.S economy will be like in 5 years?
In five years, the economy will have had to react to events that haven't occurred and can't even be foreseen yet. While economists regularly run projections out to five years and well beyond, those are a different animal from predictions by a long shot. Predicting the economy beyond a three- to six-month timeframe would be little more than a parlor game -- a thing to be conducted for entertainment purposes only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen View Post
Personally, I think that in 5 years this bizzare love-affair with ethanol
will come to an end because of increased food prices and the fact the ethanol has 1/3 less energy content then oil.
And it's the most readily available substitute/supplement in seeking to diminish our dependence on oil, and it does not at all need to compete with agricultural foodstuffs to exist as a significant part of a future energy portfolio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattDen View Post
I sort of wonder how all the outsourcing, immigration, falling dollar and baby boomers will impact the economy though?
Americans have voted over and over again in favor of outsourcing by buying into this WalMart variety of consumerism generally summarized as 'low prices, always low prices'. By voting solely as consumers, such folks simply forgot that they themselves were also the producers, and that all this low-price pressure being put on suppliers was in the end going to come home to roost on their very own shoulders. We have very high levels of capital mobility in the world today, and relatively low levels of labor mobility. If you are not willing to buy a product at a price that allows the market to allocate a decent wage to the producer of that product, then the product will be soon enough produced by someone who is willing to produce it for less than a decent wage. Quite obviously, many of these presently reside in other countries.

Immigration has nothing to do with the economy. Neither does prositution, drug use, or on-line gambling. The activities of those involved in these areas are no less a part of the economy than nursing or teaching or serving as a Congressional page. As a society, we smile or frown on such activities for entirely non-economic (usually moral) reasons.

The dollar both rises and falls. On an unweighted basis against a basket of major foreign currencies, the dollar is today worth almost exactly what it was in October of 1986. On a trade-weighted basis, it is actually worth about 20% more than it was in October of 1986.

Baby boomers will continue to impact on the economy just as they have since the days when those Greatest Generation types decided to hatch them all. They will demand and the economy will therefore supply a range of age-appropriate goods and services. In the past, these have included cribs and strollers, schools, cars, homes, and places to invest their IRA's and 401-k's. Maybe next will come health and leisure-related goods and services?
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Hot, Humid Texas
485 posts, read 1,518,357 times
Reputation: 251
If something doesn't change within the next 5 years, we're headed for another depression. Currently with the prices of everything increasing, but salaries and minimum wage remaining idle, I can't see how many will survive without going bankrupt or on welfare. I read a post earlier this week that had a link to a U.S. Government website that showed that the "working poverty" level had increased significantly in the past 3 years. My family has always lived comfortably within our means, but we have begun to struggle to make ends meet even more each year for the past few years. We both have college degrees and work full time in our professions, while my husband had to take up an additional part-time job to help keep the bills current. One of us has to be at home part of the time for our children. Unless we give up our 6 hours of sleep each night to get more jobs, I don't know how we'll survive. This year even with our three jobs, we haven't been able to keep up with the rise in costs. We're doomed in the next couple of years if something doesn't change. Many people we know are in the same predicament. What do we do?
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