Get your healthcare overseas (Obama, ideologies, insurance, cost)

[ViewFromThePeak]

Originally Posted by delusianne

Oh, BigJon.

"The current salary (2009) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year....Members are free to turn down pay increase[s] and some choose to do so."

US Congress Salaries and Benefits – Salaries and Benefits of US Congress Members

How does that salary average out when you include years of internship and residency at little or no salary?

Oh, I forgot! Senators are not required to work for nothing or next to nothing to gain the "esteemed" title.

[delusianne]

Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak

How does that salary average out when you include years of internship and residency at little or no salary?

Oh, I forgot! Senators are not required to work for nothing or next to nothing to gain the "esteemed" title.

Congrespeople made a lot more when they were used car salesmen and lawyers and actors; doctors seem to be out for vengeance because they were forced to go through school and residency.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by hotair2

I have no idea as to what you are talking about.

Exactly...

[hitchcock]

Many Doctors in America are now soiling their underpants because they are afraid that if a Govt. health plan is brought in they might have to become just rich and not filthy rich. No wonder they are saying how awful a uhc in America would be. Awful for them!

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak

You will then see a lot fewer doctors enter the field and further rationing of care, whether it's a private or public plan

So you are saying that the world needs a crappy doctor more than a good engineer. or even a welder?

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by delusianne

Oh, BigJon.

"The current salary (2009) for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year....Members are free to turn down pay increase[s] and some choose to do so."

US Congress Salaries and Benefits – Salaries and Benefits of US Congress Members

And how much does 8-12 years of schooling cost now? Exactly. How much do you think the average doctor makes and why would you kill the profit motive? Don;t forget if you want 40 million more American (and probably millions more illegals) to have "free" health-care there will need to be professionals to actually do the job.

[hotair2]

Originally Posted by hawkeye2009

That is correct. If it was cheap, there would be little problem for access. How do you make it cheap?

1. Cut salaries. Nurses are paid little today anyway, so there is no reduction there. I don't think that many would committ 13 years of post high school education, despite interest in science, to go into medicine for the same salary as a teacher or cop. The debt from education would be cost prohibitive, unless the education was free and there was a stipend during training. Healthcare is a little different than manufacturing- you just can't outsource it all, as it would be more expensive to jump on a jet to get your insulin regulated. Surgery is cheaper.

2. Stop new technology. Foreign countries are somewhat parasitic, in that they rely upon new technology created in the US markets and provide very little development in new drugs or technology. New technology is expensive and prohibiting the development of new drugs and procedures would cut costs. If you don't develop new technology, you can eliminate the R&D expense and benefit from the technology. See Norway, Sweden, Germany, UK, Japan, ect.........

3. Only use generic drugs. The generic drug manufacturers are producing drugs off patent- that is why they are generic. Regular pharmaceutical companies would have no incentive to develop new drugs, as they would prohibited and not profitable if forced to compete with generics. I know I never want a cure for cancer. Oh wait- I've already got it so it doesn't matter anymore.

4. Increase use of ancillary providers like nurse practioners and PAs. Thier salaries are less than docs, as they have less training. That is good, right?

5. Cut admission standards to med school. People in medicine are interested in science, which is the main driving factor for practicing medicine. Docs will work for lower salaries to a point. With average admission GPAs at 3.7 on a 4.0 scale, most med students are pretty smart and will just find other areas of science which satisfies thier interest while maximizing thier income. If we cut admission standards to simply accept applicants with a high school degree, shorten medical school from four years to one or two, and make residencies only one year, there would reduced cost and a greater supply. Most people working at a convenience store, all else being equal wirh the exception of that three years of "training" would probably rather be a doc than a convenience store worker. We would have a plethora of docs, which would drive down prices. No wait a minute- more docs in a community actually increases prices.

6. Evaluate and eliminate useless procedures and drugs that are no better than placebo. Each year, billions are spent on accupuncture, "spinal decmpression", massage therapy, psychic healers, ect. Just eliminate these options. They do not work, but people like them. Never use a cheap placebo when a more expensive one can be used.

7. Limit access related to life expectancy of the patient. When one has a life expectancy under one year- eliminate care. It is only a year- what the heck would they complain about?

8.Limit surgeries related to work status. Need a new hip? Not if you are not fully employed and contributing to the work force. Use a cane and some motrin or get a job.

9. Don't allow ANY medical imaging, with the exception of x-rays. MRIs are expensive and one should be able to pick up that tumor via physical exam. PET scan for cancer- are you kidding? They are $4K and they are just for people who are going to die anyway- they have cancer you know.


One really good thing about lower reimbursement for providers is that it will drive those only interested in money out the field. There will be a huge buisness for airlines flying from the US back to Inida and Pakistan. It may revive the airline industry.

First doctors are overpaid because the AMA has created scarcity. The AMA has lobbyied for less residency space. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of candidates. That is a Canard.
The Untold Story Behind Rising Medical Costs « Giving Up Control

Hospitals make money off of each procedure that they perform. Despite the fact that they blame doing the procedures on defensive medicine they do it because they make money off of each test.

Having an X ray of your chest, which takes 5 minutes at the cost of $900. I agree that it is expensive, but why. You give no explanation as to why all of the procedures are expensive.

57,000 for knee replacement surgery. How do you explain that. It is performed in several hours. Why does it cost $57,000

The fact is that the cost of doctors is the smallest chunk of the cost, but it is certainly a factor.

[BigJon3475]

Originally Posted by hitchcock

Many Doctors in America are now soiling their underpants because they are afraid that if a Govt. health plan is brought in they might have to become just rich and not filthy rich. No wonder they are saying how awful a uhc in America would be. Awful for them!

You want half ass unmotivated people doing your special procedures?

[delusianne]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

And how much does 8-12 years of schooling cost now? Exactly. How much do you think the average doctor makes and why would you kill the profit motive? Don;t forget if you want 40 million more American (and probably millions more illegals) to have "free" health-care there will need to be professionals to actually do the job.

do you feel sorry for lawyers? They help you when you need them, and they have to go to school too.

Physician Salaries

[hotair2]

Originally Posted by BigJon3475

And how much does 8-12 years of schooling cost now? Exactly. How much do you think the average doctor makes and why would you kill the profit motive? Don;t forget if you want 40 million more American (and probably millions more illegals) to have "free" health-care there will need to be professionals to actually do the job.

A specialist in a field like radiology in a small town with their own partnership can make around 850K. Much less if the work for a hospital in a larger city. Anywhere between 150 -600. General practictioners get paid the least, which is why we have a shortage.