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It's suspicious that there are so many lines and pages just on advanced care consultation, and the actual bill states consultation mandatory if more than five years since last consultation. Doesn't say the person has to be sick or well either. There are many millions of people who will absolutely not let any doctor consult them, period, on this subject! They will sign the usual advanced care directive after they read it, but that is it.
The rationing in UK and Canada, the waiting, the lack of proper testing. Why won't Congressman be in the same public health care the bill is addressing?? We have few primary care physicians as it is, they will be too busy to do a good job when this health care reform passes.
We may have had the finest healthcare once but not now. Are you so desperate to keep the status quo that you refuse to come into the 21st century? our health care is now ranked lower than even much poorer countries and it is much more expensive than uhc countries.
This whole thing is like the Titanic. Our health care system has hit an iceberg. The uhc is the lifeboats and the anti uhc protesters and people with health cover are the first class passengers who absolutely refuse to see that the ship is sinking.
Our health system is all but sunk. Once it has sunk these anti uhc people will be pushing the women, children young and old out of their way to get to whatever lifeboat they can climb on.
"our health care is now ranked lower than even much poorer countries".
Where on the face of the earth did you hear this? So wrong, It's just the opposite, we have the best health care in the world!
It's suspicious that there are so many lines and pages just on advanced care consultation, and the actual bill states consultation mandatory if more than five years since last consultation. Doesn't say the person has to be sick or well either. There are many millions of people who will absolutely not let any doctor consult them, period, on this subject! They will sign the usual advanced care directive after they read it, but that is it.
The rationing in UK and Canada, the waiting, the lack of proper testing. Why won't Congressman be in the same public health care the bill is addressing?? We have few primary care physicians as it is, they will be too busy to do a good job when this health care reform passes.
Where did you get this idea that there is rationing in the UK for healthcare or lack of proper testing or indeed long waiting times?
I'd like to know list of those 35 better countries for health care in the post.
I know a doctor that says there are long waiting times in Canada and UK for surgeries and appointments. There are upper age limits to receive kidney dialysis, hip replacements, hope it won't happen here. Also heard one eye to go blind before drug for macular degeneration is permitted. Rationing like this is going on I hear. I'm in government health care in CA now, not Medicare but public sliding scale care, it's bad, and I've seen and heard from others. Personal experience: 8 1/2 hrs. waiting at appointments, Pa's diagnosing and prescribing wrongly for almost two years before real doctor stopped them and apologized, other doctors were less than good. Then at another large medical center it took a whole year to get appointment, they kept saying call back in three months. Finally ended up at ER and diagnosed but still in bad shape. At this same major medical hospital at an outpatient appointment, were 12 chairs and 78 people...the old people in walkers and young on crutches left because they could not stand for 4 hours to be seen. Then at medical center above they changed system to appointment waiting only 3 weeks and finally saw primary care and was in bad shape but my med wasn't reduced enough and caused more organ failure and vital med to save that organ, no treatment. Got referrals but no appointment for 7 months to two specialists until I complained. Knew one teen who had bent arm broken with loss of hand use, and that major hospital did not operate on him so was nerve damage.
In general, it's best to see a specialist in public care. Primary care docs often will not treat something that a specialist in same building/system would treat, worried they would do something wrong, a lot of conflicts of interest. Then you tell the specialist that you weren't given vital med by primary care when you first came in and they smile and say sometimes they will do that. A specialist asked me why I didn't come in sooner (before the organ failed, and I told them I tried for a whole year to get an appointment). All this just a little of many problems I had with public health care in Ca the last few years. I'm worried new health care will be just as bad or worse.
Last edited by clsicmovies; 08-08-2009 at 11:04 PM..
You don't have to look outside the US to see how UHC works. Just take a look at Mass. which has had it for 3 years. They have a $1.3 billion deficit, long waiting times and the medical staff is strained to capacity. It's mandatory else you get a fine yet they still have uninsured people.
A 3 year study right here in the US folks. This is the most likely valid comparison to what the rest of the US will get.
You don't have to look outside the US to see how UHC works. Just take a look at Mass. which has had it for 3 years. They have a $1.3 billion deficit, long waiting times and the medical staff is strained to capacity. It's mandatory else you get a fine yet they still have uninsured people.
A 3 year study right here in the US folks. This is the most likely valid comparison to what the rest of the US will get.
You forgot another one; Hawaii's Universal Child Health Care.
That one only lasted 7 months!!!
He's a real gem from the article:
"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."
I hope that the point of my OP got through to most of you. There is a DIFFERENCE between having LEGITIMATE concerns with a proposed bill, as some of you more intelligent and rational debaters have presented on this thread that I started, and protesting it or having a problem with the bill based on outright and outrageous "lies". The BIGGEST most GLARINGLY OBVIOUS lie that I see in what i posted is the one regarding how the U.S wants to counsel the elderly on killing themselves. The bill , talks about counseling in regards to setting up documentation so that YOUR wishes for the directive of the end of your life is carried out. THEY WANT YOU to decide your course of treatment and put it down in a legal document so that YOUR family knows exactly what YOUR wishes are. Why.
There have been some legitimate arguments against this reform bill and when the people/persons speak RATIONALLY about the issue, it makes sense. BUT .. when you want to throw out right LIES about what the bill actually says, you lose credibility AND you lose the respect of any sane person that may actually listen to you.
My point, in all this was.. READ it. Don't believe the "outrageous" things you hear, and subsequently gasp, about in this bill. The lies take away from the legitimate gripes that may exist. One of the legitimate gripes is the vague language that some feel leave too many unanswered questions. For that INTELLIGENT input into the debate, I applaud you.
As for the numbnut who wrote THIS when givign me a rep:
Quote:
You, my friend, are without a clue despite your good intentions but you live in a state with towns called "Blue Balls" and "Jersey Shore" and "Intercourse". Hard to take you seriously b/c Pa is pretty much full of row homes/churches/bars...
You , my friend , are a complete moron. If you had done a little digging on me BEFORE you posted that backhanded "rep" you would have known that while I LIVE in Pennsylvania for almost 1 year now, I was born and raised in NY.. Long Island NY until recently. I worked in Manhattan for many years and have lived in Brooklyn and Queens as well.
BTW.. you may also find it interesting that the very section I live in PA is NOT full of all those things you mentioned.. I happen to live in a a VERY artsy and touristy section.. one that is full of rich history, museums, all types of concerts including classical etc. and in which former NY'rs and NJ residents now reside.. and NO it's NOT the Poconos either!. YOU , whoever you are .. which I don't know WHO you are because you didn't have the balls enough to actually leave your name, have now made a complete fool of yourself with that little comment because YOU show your ignorance. You also show your lack of knowledge of the rest of the country ..as you seem to think little of other states than your own .. a very sad thing, if you ask me. THAT makes YOU the one who is absolutely clueless.
Next time.. have the balls to actually identify yourself so that you may be corrected on your ignorance in a more private manner.
Again.. I believe the point of my post was recieved by all of you true "thinkers" who actually DO give a hoot about health care reform. While we may disagree on most if not ALL of it, I do respect the fact that you are able to see PAST the rhetoric and ridiculous hyperbole of "Obama is Hitler" or " The government wants to kill granny" and all the other things to actually SEE the intentions behind this bill isn't to "redistribute wealth" or any other CRAP... but to actually make healthcare ACCESABLE to ALL American citizens.. NOT just the ones with the deepest pockets.
And one more thing.. to HappyTexan. The Reason why MA failed in their system of health care is because it is trying to operate in the larger more broken system that exists within the u.S. Those that have spoken about the "cost" of healthcare are rigth.. THAT also needs to be addressed along with all of this AT THE SAME TIME. if it's NOT, then this or any other bill WILL FAIL to achieve anything.
So.. while I agree with many things in the bill like a Public Option, Mandating health insurance, removal of pre-existing conditions.. I do feel there are things they are NOT addressing that may doom this plan or backfire it unless it is handled.. like tort reform and compensating Dr's in such a way as to actually encourage more Primary Care physicians .. with a more concentrated focus on PREVENTION and WELLNESS...etc.
TristansMommy, Thanks for your long original rebuttal of opinions on the bill, lots of work with a 3 yr. old. We need to look at both sides, investigate the bill at least the final version of it. Post on this thread by the UK doctor was important on rationing going on there and that no stents are given for over age 59, shocking, and how U.S. wants to copy UK. So, no stents which are far less expensive than a bypass, what will they do let person have nitro and then die of heart attack? I've no trust in present U.S. government care for under age 65 that I'm in now as my post states, I just hope the new health care bill when passed will be what people want and expect it to be.
The President's Director of the Domestic Policy Council, debunks the malicious myth that health reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors.
Listen to the truth. . .
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This debunks the malicious myth that health reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors.
