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I didn't mean free in that sense. I meant free in the sense that, were Healthcare a right (which it is not), it would be 'free.' Our true rights (speech, 2nd Amend, etc) are free.
For ex, Public Education is by no means free and is a privilege. You have to be a legal resident of the municipality, pay certain fees, pay RE tax if you own (and pay for even if you rent), etc. It's not guaranteed wily nilly.
Good point. Actually education is mandatory. You don't go to assigned school and someone goes to jail.
Makes me wonder if you don't go to a government selected doctor for medical treatment then you go to jail. That is almost certain to happen if we get "reform"
Ugh. I guess I have to type every single pertinent detail for some people. You have posted a Wikipedia entry on a bill that is not one of the 4-5 "bills" that is currently being seriously debated in Congress. It is not one of the bills that has a prayer to pass this year, or any year coming up any time soon. No one seriously believes that a single-payer system will pass.
Ugh. I guess I have to type every single pertinent detail for some people. You have posted a Wikipedia entry on a bill that is not one of the 4-5 "bills" that is currently being seriously debated in Congress. It is not one of the bills that has a prayer to pass this year, or any year coming up any time soon. No one seriously believes that a single-payer system will pass.
Ummm, ok. That it has 30% of the Democrats in the Congress as co-sponsors says that there is a significant chunk of Dems with the political balls to say what they truly believe. It also indicates to me that the majority of the rest of them, like the President, want single payer but they know it won't pass now. What they do know is once they get their foot in the door it will make it easier to eventually get single payer over time.
As your fellow traveler posted earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK
We have to start somewhere. I want single payer as bad as anybody but it is too radical to expect to change a whole system overnight! We will have to evolve over time into single payer hopefully. If we can do Public Option and we can get maybe 20% of the people into it and it is ran well and is cost effective, more Americans will see that it is a good idea and they will want to move that way.
Good point. Actually education is mandatory. You don't go to assigned school and someone goes to jail.
Makes me wonder if you don't go to a government selected doctor for medical treatment then you go to jail. That is almost certain to happen if we get "reform"
Forgot the point about truancy. The point was that someone must take certain steps before being able to enroll in public schools and that it requires funding (i.e. taxes) and can be taken from us, meaning it is not a fundamental right.
You could not be more wrong. Which Health insurance programs have $ 35 Trillion (perhaps even more, depending on how far out you go) in unfunded liabilities? It's Medicare and Medicaid, which are Government run. It's Medicare and Medicaid that are broke, not the private insurers.
Our life expectancy at birth lags behind some other nations, but much of that is b/c of higher incidences of death from Auto accidents and violence. We are also a large, diverse nation. It is hard for us to beat smaller homogeneous nations in life expectancy at birth. If you took Irish or German Americans, for example, against Irish and German nationals, we'd be very competitive. Certain ethnic groups have higher and lower life expectancies within the same country.
If you're in San Jose, I hope you appreciate that it was liberal policies that brought your state to its knees. California has: high taxes, progressive tax rates, weak immigration enforcement, powerful public sector employees' unions, generous compensation and benefits for public sector employees and retirees, stringent labor laws, strict environment regulations, the highest paid teachers, bloated Government payrolls. What happened to the utopia?
I'm getting ready to sign off but I'm pretty sure that I've seen stats that show we pay a higher % of GDP and higher per capita than most of the rest of the western industrialized world. France comes to mind immediately. Our birth death rate is high.... our life expectancy is lower... and it costs us more. Why should I believe that what we have is working... or that the insurance companies and free market can resolve it.
As California... we have our problems. But I saw some stats on this forum today that said our literacy rate was higher than Texas... number of high school graduates higher... lower poverty rate... the stats for conservative Texas aren't that great for a lot of folks. And for it's worth, the conservatives and their inaction along with prop 13 have a good share of the blame here in CA.
I'm sorry... will maybe I'm not... but i don't trust Armey or any of the rest of them that say all government programs are bad. When they rail against what's being proposed, they should be up front that they want to get rid of Medicare and Social Security... wonder how much support they would keep if they did. Maybe they should be honest about how they front what they want to look like grass roots efforts. I don't trust them or other right wing conservatives on this issue for one minute. The private insurance, anti-government, free market solves all have let us down.
Maybe Medicare needs work... ok... let's see what can be done without just getting rid of it. It benefits millions of folks! Millions of folks that would be stranded without it. Think Met Life is going to want to insure GrandMa? Meanwhile, insurance companies deny assitance to those because pre-existing conditions after they lose their jobs or go through some other hardship.
So... no... I don't think government is always the problem. I thought Reagan was wrong when he said it years ago and I had even voted for Nixon twice and Ford before he said that. I do think there is a place for government... I'd like to see the public option... and if it isn't done now, we're going to see millions of folks denied of coverage that would've been possible with the public option.
Our life expectancy at birth lags behind some other nations, but much of that is b/c of higher incidences of death from Auto accidents and violence. We are also a large, diverse nation. It is hard for us to beat smaller homogeneous nations in life expectancy at birth. If you took Irish or German Americans, for example, against Irish and German nationals, we'd be very competitive. Certain ethnic groups have higher and lower life expectancies within the same country.
I want to see that in writing (other than a MB)
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