Sarah and the Death Panels (ethic, radical, independent, solutions)

[roysoldboy]

Originally Posted by Siouxcia

Nope, I refuse to open any link to 'Palin's response' or the like. How about an intelligent source, Democrat/Republican/anyone with a brain?

How about that forced ignorance of yours? If you can't read the piece that caused the Senate Finance Committee, the only one without a "finished" plan to withdraw their order for those panels, to withdraw that part of their plan.

I guess you really think the Gang of Six won't go ahead with that withdrawal.

[Siouxcia]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

There will be rationing....

Who said that? Sarah Palin?

[roysoldboy]

Originally Posted by Siouxcia

Who said that? Sarah Palin?

Any thinking human knows that when there is a shortage, in this case of doctors, there will be rationing. That means somebody has to decide who gets treated first and last. Stop listening to progs who don't think and pay some attention to some truth.

[nickeldude]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

Who caught my girl lying about death panels? It seems to me that the media went after her but the Senate Finance Committee took that part out of their bill. Yes Grassley caused that but it came after Palin's thing on Facebook. I am not sure that one House committee didn't offer to take that part out of their bill.

Everyone who still listens to anything Palin said caught her lying about death panels. Did you actually read the health care bill or are you just posting using hearsay as your only source? If you did, please point out the part that in any way suggests that there would have been "death panels". Please, cuz I did read it and could not find it anywhere at all.

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

No, I don't think Palin was so wrong and she did cause the one Senate committee that had not put out a bill to withdraw that part. Yes, I read an article in Kos that said she is making policy for the Senate because of this. Would that site be saying that if it weren't true? I can't understand how that could be.

Lol did you just say that it has to be true because a site on the internet said so? Ok... Anyways Sarah Palin is effectively a nobody right now. She has no political power and really is comparable to Paris Hilton, shes famous just for being famous. Palin has no say on anything that happens in America because reasonable people know that she is incompetent as a politician. She may be a great person and woman, I don't know her personally to comment either way, but what I do know is she is a dingbat when dealing with any kind of political legislation.

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

You have accepted the word of the MSM in their attempt to make her out a liar. Did you bother to read the Facebook article that she entered? It was back there a bit and one of your prog friends refused to read anything offered by Palin because she is too stupid. I think the one who refused to open that link is the stupid one. Forced ignorance that to me means refusal to read anything is the worst kind of ignorance.

I didn't read Palin's facebook (lol) entry. Not because I refuse to, but because I had no inclination to give this woman any of my attention. She deserves none of it. If I thought I had anything to gain from reading anything she supposedly wrote, I'd read it. But other than being a very charismatic speaker, she has shown me nothing to make me think she has something to offer America. She hasn't made any good talking points in any debates, managed to be an even more awkward speaker than Bush was, and made up lies about Obama AND the health care bill.

I don't know what could possibly be in that facebook entry to change my mind. My guess is she just tells a bunch of spiteful conservatives exactly what they want to hear, and is then praised even though she didn't actually say anything of substance or anything that people didn't already know. And when you have to write something on your facebook page, because you can't make your voice heard any other way, it should be a sign that maybe you should just hang up your boots, cuz no one really cares what you have to say anymore.

At any rate the Senate committee did back off because of Palin. Is that really wrong. Kos says it is right and any prog should accept that as true coming rom Kos.[/quote]

[Siouxcia]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

How about that forced ignorance of yours? If you can't read the piece that caused the Senate Finance Committee, the only one without a "finished" plan to withdraw their order for those panels, to withdraw that part of their plan.

I guess you really think the Gang of Six won't go ahead with that withdrawal.

See that's where you show you're ignorance, Roy. There are no 'panals', no is no 'rationing'. I have read the bill probably in more depth than you and the other hysterics have. I'm a healthcare provider so I have a double vested interest in this bill. NO WHERE in this bill is there mention of 'death panals' or 'rationing', NO WHERE.

The part of the bill that has resulted in this hysteria of yours simply states that a physician will be compensated by Medicare for the time she/he spends discussing end of life options with their patients. The choice to 'go for it all', 'only comfort measures', 'do it all until two, hundred, whatever number physicians say it's futile', etc. is the patient's. No one else can make that choice for them. This is to avoid anyone else from making that decision for them if they get so ill they cannot speak for themselves.

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

Between 2012 and 2030, 74 million baby boomers will retire, cease to be the major contributors to Medicare and become the major drain on Medicare. How long will an overtaxed labor force in a de-Christianized America be wiling to pay the bill to keep all those aging boomers alive?

Rationed care is coming, and the death panels will not be far behind.

Sarah and the Death Panels - HUMAN EVENTS

Excellent article roysoldboy. I disagree with you quite often, but you hit the nail on the head here. The issue is the upcoming melt-down that will happen. Germany didn't enact the T4 program until the collapse of the Mark opened the door for drastic changes to the standards of care given to the most vulnerable of its citizens.

Sarah Palin is way out front on this issue and has forced the hands of those who would lead us down this dangerous road. Her detractors will never admit the hockey mom whipped their backsides and sent them to bed without dinner, but that is the long and short of it. She forced the issue and they backed down. If public option is enacted against the will of the people, look for them to slide it in with some sleazy amendment on a Friday afternoon. Fox will report it, but no one else will.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by roysoldboy

Did you read that article or are you one of the forced ignorant progs? Surely you read the article. I don't care who wrote it it caused the Senate Finance committee to drop the panels from their article according to Senato Grassley and Daily Kos. Surely you can accept that coming from Kos.

Of course I've read the article. It didn't sound as if the former governor wrote it at all. As a resident of Alaska, I've been reading "your girl's" ramblings far longer than you have, and unless she took a crash course in basic writing skills and actually learned more from it than she did in her five tier four colleges, I suspect that she went to the completely ridiculous length of hiring a ghostwriter for her FaceBook account.

[Metlakatla]

And...by the way....

Troubled Alaska health programs face federal restriction: Health | adn.com

State programs intended to help disabled and elderly Alaskans with daily life -- taking a bath, eating dinner, getting to the bathroom -- are so poorly managed, the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.

The situation is so bad the federal government has forbidden the state to sign up new people until the state makes necessary improvements.

No other state in the nation is under such a moratorium, according to a spokeswoman for the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services.

In the meantime, frail and vulnerable Alaskans who desperately need the help are struggling. One elderly woman is stuck in a nursing home, for lack of care at home. Another woman, suffering from chronic pain and fatigue, said she's so weak, she often can't even pop dinner into the microwave.

[Siouxcia]

Roy, as a healthcare provider I have double vested interested in this bill. I read it, I'm willing to wager, more than you and the other hysterics have. When I asked for links to the death panal, I knew they didn't exist. I was waiting to see what someone would post as a link and was given Sarah Palin! *vomits a little in mouth* I don't want to take the time to do what someone else has already done. The following is from a blog, I know, it's a blog. But I read this AFTER I read the bill and he's spot on. The fact that he lists the pages and lines that he's referencing makes this, IMO, much more credible than Sarah Palin and her Death Panel crap. Given her history of taking sentences out of context and putting her own special 'spin' (lies) into them, I have zero confidence that anything she has to say is worth listenting or reading.

(Why do I believe this is a futile effort?)

Here's the link to the bill so you can cross reference, http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


Debunking the Myths, Lies, and Slander of the Health Care Bill « The Great Geno's Weblog
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill

This does not ration healthcare, it sets maximums for the amount an individual has to pay for medical under an insurance plan ($5000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family, with automatic increases based upon increases in the Consumer Price Index.

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill

Standards within the plans will be mandated, meaning a guaranteed minimum level of coverage. However, standards do not limit the amount of insurance above these minimums which a company may offer. So if you wish to purchase more insurance than the standards offered, you would still have that option. This is the exact opposite of rationing.

Pg 355 Sec 1177

This section does not restrict anything. What it actually does is change the date of the Social Security law restricting certain enrollments from January 1, 2011 to January 1, 2013, or to January 1, 2016 for certain plans. Plus, it grandfathers certain people in. So it’s doing the opposite of restricting coverage – it’s increasing coverage times for special needs.

PG 425 Lines 4-12

This amends Social Security law to pay for advanced care planning consultations. It only pays for services already available but currently not paid for.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19

The government will not instruct and/or consult regarding living wills and powers of attorney. Social Security will merely pay for these services. And these services are not mandatory. Social Security payment for them if the patient desires them is.

PG 427 Lines 15-24

... this particular piece of the legislation says that Social Security will only pay for advanced care or end of life consolations which include “a program for life sustaining treatments.” So it’s really saying that the government should not have any say in how early your life ends.

PG 430 Lines 11-15

This does not stipulate what kind of treatment will be delivered, but (again) rather stipulates that Social Security will pay for a consultation as to what kind of treatment will be delivered.

[Metlakatla]

This is interesting as well:

Have You No Decency? - The Treatment

Governor Palin writes: “And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled.” It’s telling that she omitted one category: Poor people, whose care is now cruelly rationed in ways the Obama administration and congressional Democrats are trying to address in health care reform. Palin brings genuine moral passion to the issue of cognitive disability. I wish she would bring that same passion to the plight of uninsured patients forced to seek substandard, delayed care, or the millions of Americans facing the dual challenge of serious illness and large medical bills. If you live in any big city, go down to your local public hospital emergency room. You will probably find people in visible discomfort or illness languishing for hours. A society that cares about human rights and dignity would not tolerate this.