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Ok If there is a public plan it will sqeeze out private plans sine the government is way more powerfu than any private business. Imagine if one business could haul another one before it with subpeonia power and grill them. Also the government has unlimited resources. The public option could run in the red forever a private plan cannot do that. A public plan is the first step towards single payer.
We have a free society because of limited government intrusion into tour lives the government taking over 16% of the economy and perhaps the single most important aspect of our lives changes that dynamic.
Private companies have near monopolies in many states because of government rules that make selling insurance across state lines so burdensome as to make it impossible for smaller companies to compete. The government is creating these monoplies and strangling competition.
So forcing insurance companies to operate better is a bad thing? The government has unlimited resources? WOW that's a newsflash!! The only thing a public option is the first step toward is the possibility of insurance for 45 million people.
Government wont be stopping you from anything..Please tell me what the government will be taking from you?
You know how you prevent nationwide monopolies? Nationwide Competition.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,018,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank1906
Excatly..
If medicaire is bankrupt in 2017, then everything will be...I don't need a link to know that. It's already been established that without reform, it and our economy will be in trouble. The UHC option will ony cover those that want it not everybody..The covering of illegals lie has been thouroughly debunked.
Illegals already receive free healthcare in our emergency rooms ...
History does not back you up. Before Social Security, we had the moral tragedy of millions of seniors on the doorstep and inside the house of abject poverty in their last years. We were either all going to pay for their care, or allow them to wallow in poverty and sickness.
Do you really think that Americans, who were racking up more debt than savings up until this year, are going to voluntarily invest in their retirement in significant enough numbers to prevent history from repeating itself? What about these times, or human nature for that matter, differs from before we had Social Security? Why would history not repeat itself?
No the history of SS is it was intended to take care of people in their last years of life. The average life expectancy was about 68 when it was instituted.
So forcing insurance companies to operate better is a bad thing? The government has unlimited resources? WOW that's a newsflash!! The only thing a public option is the first step toward is the possibility of insurance for 45 million people.
Government wont be stopping you from anything..Please tell me what the government will be taking from you?
You know how you prevent nationwide monopolies? Nationwide Competition.
I agree nationwide competition is the answer to monoplolies. Tell your pals in Congress, they prevent insurance from being sold nationwide.
The government can't force competition they can stop it.
The government can take away choice by stifiling competition because it can spend privte insurance into oblivion they can pruint money.
It's not hypocritical at all for conservatives who are on gov ran programs to be against universal healthcare. They've been forced to pay into those programs so they have a right to take from them. Just because they've been forced to pay before doesnt mean they want to pay more in the future, or think others should be saddled with more public debt.
Illegals already receive free healthcare in our emergency rooms ...
So what's the problem? UHC wont change what's already occuring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorkdoc
It's not hypocritical at all for conservatives who are on gov ran programs to be against universal healthcare. They've been forced to pay into those programs so they have a right to take from them. Just because they've been forced to pay before doesnt mean they want to pay more in the future, or think others should be saddled with more public debt.
You're assuming that these conservatives have paid into the system the same way people assume that those who may benefit from UHC haven't or wont pay into the system.
My question still stands...Where was all this oppostion prior to 4 months ago? Why weren't these folks flooding townhalls requesting that medicaire and social security be disbanded? Why aren't they buring their medicaire cards? Where were the teaparty medicaire protests?
The funny part of your argument is that it's excatly what conservatives claim to hate. Entitlement. As Americans, these old folks should be entitled to healthcare but they don't wont anybody else to have that same entitlement. Hypocrisy.
If you really want a dialogue I think I can explain it to you but if you want to call names don't bother responding. Many of the folks on Medicare and SS don't have a choice. They have been taxed most of thier lives to support these programs which prohibited many of them from setting up substantial alternate investment. If you ask younger folks if they would prefer to forego social security and invest their own money I believe the vast majority would elect that option.
Don't forget Medicare is on the verge of collapse so I wouldn't call it a resounding success just yet.
I realize there's a little known rule that you can opt out of SS and Medicare. But how many Seniors know about the rule? I just learned about it a few months ago. Without opting out, they are forced to take Medicare coverage and that's why private insurance companies are very profitable.
Insurers refuse to have the costliest group of Americans as customers. That's the obese, smokers, and senior citizens. Medicare is the best friend private insurance ever had. You see the losses for Medicare and what happens when an "insurance company" gets only the crap customers. Even with Medicare running at a 2% overhead v 30% for private insurance companies, Medicare is, as you say, on the verge of collapse."
So what's the problem? UHC wont change what's already occuring.
You're assuming that these conservatives have paid into the system the same way people assume that those who may benefit from UHC haven't or wont pay into the system.
My question still stands...Where was all this oppostion prior to 4 months ago? Why weren't these folks flooding townhalls requesting that medicaire and social security be disbanded? Why aren't they buring their medicaire cards? Where were the teaparty medicaire protests?
The funny part of your argument is that it's excatly what conservatives claim to hate. Entitlement. As Americans, these old folks should be entitled to healthcare but they don't wont anybody else to have that same entitlement. Hypocrisy.
Some conservatives, libertarians like myself, have been requesting the disbandment of welfare programs. I voted for Ron Paul in Nov because he is a true conservative and believed in the constitution. I did not vote for Bush and I did not vote for McCain.
I wish people who like to take broad swipes at political groups would understand theres a difference in them.
I'm trying to reconcile how conservatives who benefit from medicaire, social security and Verterans Health Care are fighting against a public healthcare option. How much of a hyprocrit does one have to be to be outraged against the excact things they are utilizing? When asked at one townhall, none of these people said they would stop using these programs but they're against public healthcare for all. Is this just stupidity? Is it just doing what you're told by conservative media? Is it just a deep hatred for anything Obama? These folks step all over there own "principles" by using social programs while berating them. I watched a clip of how Reagan spoke about how Medicaire and Social Security would basically bring an end to our society but he was completely wrong. These programs have been here for decades and conservatives have reaped the benefits just as much as anybody else BUT once again, they'll claim that a UHC option will bring an end to our society. The hypocrisy is just amazing.
It goes back way beyond this:
Business interests began to benefit with the first government social program:
Genocide against Native Americans in order to steal their land.
I realize there's a little known rule that you can opt out of SS and Medicare. But how many Seniors know about the rule? I just learned about it a few months ago. Without opting out, they are forced to take Medicare coverage and that's why private insurance companies are very profitable.
Insurers refuse to have the costliest group of Americans as customers. That's the obese, smokers, and senior citizens. Medicare is the best friend private insurance ever had. You see the losses for Medicare and what happens when an "insurance company" gets only the crap customers. Even with Medicare running at a 2% overhead v 30% for private insurance companies, Medicare is, as you say, on the verge of collapse."
Hmm..So in fact, those most likely to utilize medicaire wouldn't be able to obtain private insurance..Interesting..
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorkdoc
Some conservatives, libertarians like myself, have been requesting the disbandment of welfare programs. I voted for Ron Paul in Nov because he is a true conservative and believed in the constitution. I did not vote for Bush and I did not vote for McCain.
I wish people who like to take broad swipes at political groups would understand theres a difference in them.
I and the rest of the country totally missed your disbandment movement. A vote for Ron Paul does not absolve you of being conservative.
I didn't take a broad political swipe at anything. I said conservative..If you want to add the "libertarian" (I'm above the knuckledraggers) distinction then so be it.
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