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Old 08-25-2009, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,299 posts, read 8,580,979 times
Reputation: 3663

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugguy View Post
Foxman and the ADL are just upset that they can't milk this for more $$$$$$$$. These professional "survivors" are disgusting. For Foxman and the ADL to breath our air is "outrageous, offensive and inappropriate"!
If you are comfortable with being an anti-Semite, which obviously you are given your comments about "our air" and the right "to breathe," that's your right, immoral as it may be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Who brought Nazism into the discussion?

Shame on her.
You should actually watch the videos before you post them. No one in the video called anyone a Nazi. Perhaps you haven't seen the pictures, linked on this forum or shown on the news, that show people holding signs with swastikas, some with lines through the signs, some not. That's what Pelosi is describing.

And in terms of Boxer's comments, why is it that the right-wing thinks that everything liberals do is nefariously organized and nothing that the right-wing does is? Just a tad too convenient that "logic."

Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Your disdain for a disabled vet speaks volumes.
Nice George W. Bush move. Question the war and all of a sudden you hate US soldiers. With you, it's question the logic of what one person who happens to be a Marine vet, and all of a sudden, one has disdain for all disabled vets. It can be an effective means of argumentation, though hardly an ethical one.

No, my disdain is for stupidity, though I doubt that you'll comprehend the difference, even with the explanation above.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:35 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,756,553 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
46 million?


how many are illegals?

how many are people that dont want health care because they believe that they wont get sick?

maybe when you start giving the right answers, that 46 million number shall go down pretty damn fast.
Monkeywrenching, this isn't directed solely at you, but I've noticed in several posts the phrase "people that don't want health care". This simply doesn't make sense. Everyone wants health care when they need it. What you seem to be saying is that there are people who don't want health care coverage (because they believe they won't get sick). And what that means is that there are some people who don't want to pay for health care coverage because they don't believe it's a benefit for them. Of course, part of the problem is that these people do get sick. These people do have accidents. While many of them may be able to pay out-of-pocket, many aren't able to pay their healthcare bills and those bills eventually make their way to the rest of us, collecting middlemen and interest expenses along the way.

No matter how much you can whittle down the 46 million number, the fact is that health care costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy in this country, and many of those that go bankrupt are actually insured. Health care in this country is badly in need of reform. Finding better ways to cover the uninsured and the underinsured is one of reforms needed.
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:18 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,089,638 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
Seems to me like it quite fitting and even more so for the current regime - aside from a few points - but the other ones are earmarks of that State society
Would you care to point out which ones you think fit the current administration and give examples?


I used to ask ANY Republican, neocon, conservative to deny that these 14 points apply/applied to the Cheney/Bush Administration and they couldn't, they could never even attempt to deny them.......


I have no idea what you mean by "State society"
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:22 AM
 
873 posts, read 1,796,836 times
Reputation: 480
Yeah, right, here we go with the, "if you criticize _______(fill in the blank), then you're an anti-Semite" garbage. Meanwhile Foxman and the ADL can criticize whomever they wish to get more contributions for their BS organization and it makes them what???? Foxman is a criminal. I can't change that, but I can state it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by helenejen View Post
If you are comfortable with being an anti-Semite, which obviously you are given your comments about "our air" and the right "to breathe," that's your right, immoral as it may be.
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Old 08-25-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
8,299 posts, read 8,580,979 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugguy View Post
Yeah, right, here we go with the, "if you criticize _______(fill in the blank), then you're an anti-Semite" garbage. Meanwhile Foxman and the ADL can criticize whomever they wish to get more contributions for their BS organization and it makes them what???? Foxman is a criminal. I can't change that, but I can state it!
Hey, why deny it. Own your anti-Semitism at least. And the charge is based on what you yourself said and nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugguy View Post
Foxman and the ADL are just upset that they can't milk this for more $$$$$$$$.
Oh yes, those greedy Jews. I'm sure you meant that in a perfectly innocent way. And this is when you reply with, "Hey, stereotypes are true for a reason."

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugguy View Post
These professional "survivors" are disgusting.
"The Anti-Defamation League was founded in 1913 'to stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.' Now the nation's premier civil rights/human relations agency, ADL fights anti-Semitism and all forms of bigotry, defends democratic ideals and protects civil rights for all."
About The Anti-Defamation League


Yeah, what a bunch of paranoid freaks in the ADL. I mean it was founded in 1913, and there's been nothing but love for Jews since that time.

Or are you a Holocaust denier too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugguy View Post
For Foxman and the ADL to breath our air is "outrageous, offensive and inappropriate"!
"Our air"? Pray, whose air exactly that someone who is not part of "our" does not have a right to breathe? Does your entitlement run that deep? I guess it has to with anti-Semites.
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:26 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,089,638 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
For those of you who are confused about Facism and didn't notice the last 8 years . 14 POINTS OF FASCISM


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous†acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.†Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.
5. Rampant sexism

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
6. A controlled mass media

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.
7. Obsession with national security

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,†and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.†A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
9. Power of corporations protected

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not†citizens.
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
12. Obsession with crime and punishment

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal†and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors†was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
14. Fraudulent elections

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

NOTE: The above 14 Points was written in 2004 by Dr. Laurence Britt, a political scientist. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of: Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile).
Does any of this sound familiar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
Seems to me like it quite fitting and even more so for the current regime - aside from a few points - but the other ones are earmarks of that State society
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
Would you care to point out which ones you think fit the current administration and give examples?


I used to ask ANY Republican, neocon, conservative to deny that these 14 points apply/applied to the Cheney/Bush Administration and they couldn't, they could never even attempt to deny them.......


I have no idea what you mean by "State society"
Don't be shy...defend your position.....LOL!!!
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Old 08-25-2009, 04:34 PM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,133 posts, read 709,781 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Okay, so he makes his speech and doesnt stick around for the reply?

Grandstanding without any substance and without offering an alternative. He has a bright future as a GOP politician.

46 Million Americans have no health care. I guess the solution by the right is to let them rot? They should just keep it real and admit it.
No sir, that is a bullsh.t statistic fed to you by the democrat vote whores that would sell you and their souls for their own narcissitic advancement. That figure is more like 15 mil. if you take out all the fluff including illegal aliens, about half the number. National health care is little more than the greatest wealth redistribution tactic the democrat socialist have ever devised. I am quite content to keep paying my private insurance to carry both f us. Keep the government out of our lives. Let them fund the military and fix the potholes. I would go for filling the potholes with a large contingent of them for a start.
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:11 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,089,638 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
No sir, that is a bullsh.t statistic fed to you by the democrat vote whores that would sell you and their souls for their own narcissitic advancement. That figure is more like 15 mil. if you take out all the fluff including illegal aliens, about half the number. National health care is little more than the greatest wealth redistribution tactic the democrat socialist have ever devised.""""



YES! Ain't it great ?!


""" I am quite content to keep paying my private insurance to carry both f us."""

So just go on doing that....NOBODY wants to stop you sending your hard earned money to the wealthiest Americans



"""Keep the government out of our lives."""


Good to know you're Pro-Choice!


"""Let them fund the military"""



And spread the wealth to Halliburton....



""" and fix the potholes. I would go for filling the potholes with a large contingent of them for a start.
Bolding mine....
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:23 PM
 
6,902 posts, read 7,517,884 times
Reputation: 2018
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanhouse View Post
The bolded statement is a flat out Liberal Democrat Lie.

#1) 46 million Americans is and unsubstantiated number

#2) Everyone has access to Healthcare or Healthcare insurance. It is a question of affordability.

So quit with your Democratic talking point Lies, you look just as bad as the Death Panel shouters.

Maybe you should tell the Republicans that have spoken on this subject who also state the same claim. Maybe you should tell Buchanan to stop lying, start with the Republican politicians.

http://factcheck.org/2009/03/uninsured-us-citizens/

Last edited by blackandproud; 08-25-2009 at 06:40 PM..
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Old 08-25-2009, 06:26 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,316,981 times
Reputation: 1857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston3 View Post
SHAME ON YOU. He served this country and has a right to speak as he wishes...
We all have the right to sound like an idiot! But that has nothing to do with him serving in the military. This guy has probably been dreaming about speaking at a town hall and getting his mug on TV.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
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