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Sooooooo, to take minds off the $9 trillion debt AND the healthcare debacle, the old "torture" chestnut will be tossed back on the fire to get the country refocused on the Bush administration and away from the Democrat looming disaster.
Wow. Paranoid thinking. Sounds like something Sarah Palin would say.
You would have to be cynical to the point of near-insanity to believe that the torture investigation is an attempt to take our minds off of the debt and the health care debate.
Location: Prescott Valley,az summer/east valley Az winter
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Let me see if I got this right~ we tell a bunch of people we'll give them 50 years earnings if they turn in some "enemy". Then we take those that are turned in and question them with "enhanced interogation" for several years and in most cases find absolutely nothing except we made some guy~ probably a bad guy~ a wealthy man. Now we have a guy that we can prove nothing on that is so embittered by his treatment that we dare not let go~ cause he is now a terrorist and will get all his friends and relatives to also hate us. Kinda catch 22~ and you wish us to pat those that accomplished this to get away free? And since we set this kind of treatment as the standard to which anyone opposed to us is allowed to do we have put our soulders in moral jeopardy! great stuff! glad you all approve!
But then again we really should be out of Afganistan immediately because none other the the then president said there was NO threat there and we should instead go to war against someone else!
Last edited by deckdoc; 08-26-2009 at 09:31 PM..
Reason: add more
Wow. Paranoid thinking. Sounds like something Sarah Palin would say.
You would have to be cynical to the point of near-insanity to believe that the torture investigation is an attempt to take our minds off of the debt and the health care debate.
I actually wouldn't argue that it may be a factor as to why this is receiving increased attention in the media.
As another point though, this is a debate that has to happen if we are still a nation of laws and morality.
In either case it's a far better diversion than jacking up the Terror Alert level to Code Pink.
You dont know what you are talking about And you damn sure dont know how intelligence services operated (successfully) during WWII without resorting to torture. Furthermore, you probably have no conception of what happened in Nuremberg after WWII was over, or the lessons learned. In short, you think you understand something you have no concept of, and if you think it "strikes fear" in their hearts, I tell you that guys released from GITMO are emboldened, and treated like rock stars. And the "intel" they give is usually what their torturers want to hear.
But those same Gestapo tactics we debriefed from captured POW's would eventually fall into the hands of an administration gleeful to use them. And it was the Bush Administration that made torture U.S. policy.
Guess what? The next step is when it happens in the United States. I know that is a quantum leap for you to understand, but dont say someone didnt tell you before it ever happened.
It is good that I don't know anything about ww2 history. I have a personal library in my home with over 500 books on the subject and have collected world war 2 militaria since I was a kid (I have a great collection of knight's crosses, DKiGs, and firearms-mostly m1 carbines and k-98s). My father and several uncles served in ww2. My minor in college was history. I guess you and I were not reading the same books. A friend of mine was actually Rudolf Hess's personal physician at Spandau (he was in the british military-his death is a story in itself!). I even have a few books specifically on torture, as that is how our human "justice" system begain- trial through stress. Read a little about the above topics and you will find it interesting. Keep in mind that the vast number of convicted germans at Nuremburg were convicted of crimes against humanity and had nothing to do with torture. That is why Speer, Keitel, Hess and Jodl were a few of the principal defendents. I think you need to bone up a bit on ww2. If you want to read some great books, I can give you a list of where to start.
The Gitmo detainees that were released never should have been released. If we had executed them or kept them in Gitmo, they would not have been free to commit more acts of terror. Pretty simple- don't free dangerous criminals if you don't want them to kill again. The problem was not interrogation, it was thier release.
As long as Obama is removed from office next election, I do not think that we have to worry about torture in America. I am a little worried about his brownshirts and his civilian army notion, so hopefully he will be out of office before he can use them on a large scale basis against US citizens.
Let me ask you this. Suppose 9/11 could have been prevented by torturing one guy (they knew who these guys were in advance).
Who is "they", and why did "they" not arrest the terrorists?
Quote:
All the terrorists died, including a few thousand Americans. As a result we launched a war in Afganistan, and by association, a war in Iraq that resulted in thousands of US casualties, as well as potentially hundreds of thousand Iraqi and Afgan lives.
The only association between 9/11 and Iraq was in the crazed minds of the psychotic Republicans you support. And some of the phony evidence used to prop up the lame arguments for the war was--guess what! Obtained by torture. Good job!
In case you haven't been keeping up, the Iraq War has killed a lot more Americans than 9/11. Maybe we ought to subject some Republican neocons to torture before they strike again?
Yes, I am just too dumb to understand. That is my personal failing in life that I have tried to rectify.
Torture works great. You have to understand that the purpose of torture is three fold
1. gaining military information not available through voluntary compliance on the part of enemy combatants
2. creating a sense of terror in enemy combatants who may, but actually are not, tortured
3. degrading the morale of the enemy
I have a patient at the VA who conducted waterboarding in Iraq and Afganistan. He said the interrogators all underwent waterboarding themselves as a part of their training. He further said that ALOT of useful military information was obtained on the part of thier activities. The problem with "torturing" (a little different than cutting off heads) at the Abu Grab (sp) prison was that any intelligence gained would have been outdated, and thus the value would only satisfy points #2 and #3 above.
Read the link below. Without torturing the bad guys, fighting many previous wars would have been more costly for Americans.
I know all the libs say, "It does not work" and that "it only INCREASES terrorism and violence to the nation that practices torture". Bullcrap.
PS- do you really think I have a future in action thriller writing? Thanks! I also do like medicine. I like my patients and the science is great.
You are forgetting the utter contempt liberal freaks have for our military. To them it is perfectly acceptable to waterboard our own military for decades, with congressional approval. But if one American-hating terrorist gets a paper-cut, they scream TORTURE! They continually change the definition of "torture" to suit their anti-American agenda.
If these liberal freaks were being honest, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid would be first on their list to be arrested for approving "torture" under their new and ever changing definition, long before Bush or even Clinton was President. But they like to play their anti-American games and hope we are too stupid to see precisely what they are doing.
What valid reasons? Being born a free American? Maybe BO should do some more apologizing. This has to be the most ridiculous liberal statist loon mindset of them all. They aren't terrorist, they are just misunderstood..... Maybe the girls from The View could have a talk with them.....
Yes, I am just too dumb to understand. That is my personal failing in life that I have tried to rectify.
Torture works great. You have to understand that the purpose of torture is three fold
1. gaining military information not available through voluntary compliance on the part of enemy combatants
2. creating a sense of terror in enemy combatants who may, but actually are not, tortured
3. degrading the morale of the enemy
I have a patient at the VA who conducted waterboarding in Iraq and Afganistan. He said the interrogators all underwent waterboarding themselves as a part of their training. He further said that ALOT of useful military information was obtained on the part of thier activities. The problem with "torturing" (a little different than cutting off heads) at the Abu Grab (sp) prison was that any intelligence gained would have been outdated, and thus the value would only satisfy points #2 and #3 above.
Read the link below. Without torturing the bad guys, fighting many previous wars would have been more costly for Americans.
I know all the libs say, "It does not work" and that "it only INCREASES terrorism and violence to the nation that practices torture". Bullcrap.
PS- do you really think I have a future in action thriller writing? Thanks! I also do like medicine. I like my patients and the science is great.
So this is to say you have no issue for the Americans in WWii that were tortured by the Japanese, or those tortured by the N vietnamese.... after all it gains valuable information. Let's tell Sen McCain, I bet he didn't get that memo.
You are forgetting the utter contempt liberal freaks have for our military. To them it is perfectly acceptable to waterboard our own military for decades, with congressional approval. But if one American-hating terrorist gets a paper-cut, they scream TORTURE! They continually change the definition of "torture" to suit their anti-American agenda.
That's a pretty ironic charge, considering we've been prosecuting soldiers--ours and others'--for waterboarding since 1901 at the very latest. It's not "liberals" who changed any "definitions".
Everyone who's actually been subjected to waterboarding, whether as part of military training, during "interrogations" by the enemy during war, or just out of curiosity--Jesse Ventura, Christopher Hitchens, John McCain, and "Mancow" Muller--say unanimously: yeah, it's torture, period.
The people who say it isn't are ALWAYS pus*y civilians like Dick Cheney, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Every time.
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