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Old 08-28-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Here
11,574 posts, read 13,923,579 times
Reputation: 6983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Reading comprehension problem????

I noted that there will be changes that will result in lower premiums.

One change (one of many) will be to open up the pool of insureds to nationally.

And there will be many other things that will bring down the premium costs.
Agree 100%. There is no way they are going to make a leap from what we have now to a UHC-style system. You will however, as GD said, see some major reform come about shortly.
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Old 08-28-2009, 02:35 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,117,192 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
As the great Senator from the State of Arizona pointed out to his constituents, there will be NO UHC program in the United States. There will be no "public option" either.

There WILL BE reforms that will not only make insurance more accessible but also less expensive.

But, the Senator pointed out, correctly, we do not need the Government running / controlling health care in the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
NO reading comprehension problems here.

Now, maybe you could tell me what entity, what person, will make insurance companies drop their premiums, insure people with pre-existing conditions, and provide the care consumer's have paid for.

Who or what will make them do that? WHO or WHAT will open the pool?


WHAT "other things " will bring down premiums???????????????????????
Question comprehension problem?
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,431,878 times
Reputation: 495
I quoted you because of the quote you used to point out how easy it is for the media to mislead without resorting to lying, simply by editing and/or omitting details that force readers/viewers to make assumptions that the average person would make but, may not necessarily be accurate. My post is not about you or anything you said in your post....although "chick" (I'm being nice), you need to calm down and have a cookie, considering the way you went off on McCain.....absurd?....moron?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
Dude, take a breath. First of all, the author didn't put "quality" inside the quotes, so it's completely obvious to anyone with a brain that they did not imply that that word was McCain's.

Correct, the word "quality" was not inside the parentheses, which is why the statement is not a lie but, is instead misleading. You may have understood the statement to be not completely of McCain's words but, many others wouldn't catch that and then they go on to repeat what they didn't catch and it just snowballs into a bunch BS that's practically impossible to correct. The author is trying to imply something other than what McCain said, otherwise why in the world would they have put the word "quality" in there the way they did....where did it come from.....why did they choose that word....and why add it directly in front of the words "government-run health care" (which he did say)?

To be fair, if you read the transcript of what he said, it's two incomplete sentences. I'm not making an assumption but, it's as though he was about to end the first sentence with the word "quality" and suddenly realized, he was repeating some of the same arguably ineffective criticism other Republicans have already given so, he stopped short mid sentence and didn't say it.....and then skipped it again when he started the second sentence (i.e..."Quality America is not ready for" or perhaps "The kind of quality America is not ready for") and instead said, "America is not ready for that".

Although, if he was going to use the word "quality" at all, it would have been in a negative context in regards to what he was saying about government-run health care in other countries......the incredible delays, etc. The way Thinkprogess.org used it, it sounds like their saying, McCain thinks America is not ready for quality (meaning good quality) government-run health care.

Other than that, I can't see where they came up with the word "quality" and/or why they decided to use it and the way they did, other than to mislead.

Secondly, notice that I didn't include the word 'quality' in my response to what McCain actually said. The only thing I rebutted were his actual words. See, I'll show you again. . . Note the distinct LACK of the word 'quality' in there.

Now go have a cookie and calm the heck down.
Again, my original post did not go into anything you said regarding the quote you used.....my post was not critical of the comments you made and was instead critical of the quote from Thinkprogress.org.
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Old 08-28-2009, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,431,878 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by caution View Post
the insurance companies should be forced to compete through deregulation and allowing interstate commerce to work it's market magic.

for now, there's no competition (or not enough to matter)

the system needs LESS government help, not more (and tort reform wouldn't hurt either)
Bravo....bravo....exactly......mandates only restrict competition and force insurance companies to raise rates to compensate for the additional claims will arise from the conditions they are being required to unconditionally accept and pay treatment for. Regulation creates "risk" that can not be predicted and forces insurers to overcompensate for it in their rates. In addition, unless some form of distribution of that risk is part of the regulations....like in a risk pool.....that risk can and will eventually become very disproportionate from one insurer to the next....forcing those that get more than others to become uncompetitive and in time, go out of business....one by one, until there are none left (except a government plan if one was in place....because, it can't go out of business....it plays by different rules).
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,431,878 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingbirdoc View Post
John McCain has lived his entire life on government run health care and he is against it...lol

The man was born in a military hospital to now having health care as a Senator.

He must love it
It's not that he's against it, he just realizes it's not possible to have one system that we all have to use, successfully replace what we have now. Just because the government can provide health care on a small scale (for it's employees), it doesn't mean it can do it for every citizen and have it any where near the same as it is now for it's employees.
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:22 PM
 
Location: SARASOTA, FLORIDA
11,486 posts, read 15,278,971 times
Reputation: 4894
Obama is the one who said we all would have the same insurance that he has.

NOT.

The stupid town hall lady does not know that it is the liberals who control the WH and congress.

She needs to ask the liberal party this question because they have controlled congress for 2 3/4 years and have done NOTHING about it have they?
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:39 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,117,192 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny-Days90 View Post
Obama is the one who said we all would have the same insurance that he has.

NOT.

The stupid town hall lady does not know that it is the liberals who control the WH and congress.

She needs to ask the liberal party this question because they have controlled congress for 2 3/4 years and have done NOTHING about it have they?
And before that what were the repubs doing to help???
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:26 PM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,117,192 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
As the great Senator from the State of Arizona pointed out to his constituents, there will be NO UHC program in the United States. There will be no "public option" either.

There WILL BE reforms that will not only make insurance more accessible but also less expensive.

But, the Senator pointed out, correctly, we do not need the Government running / controlling health care in the United States.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?!
NO reading comprehension problems here.

Now, maybe you could tell me what entity, what person, will make insurance companies drop their premiums, insure people with pre-existing conditions, and provide the care consumer's have paid for.

Who or what will make them do that? WHO or WHAT will open the pool?


WHAT "other things " will bring down premiums???????????????????????


Question comprehension problem?



ECHO...ECho...echo.....
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
2,553 posts, read 2,431,878 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukester View Post
Waxman is holding hearing's to reveal profits the insurance companies are bleeding the American people and giving their CEOs. The healthcare issue is not going away until everybody has credible healthcare...
I think many are under the impression health insurers are making tons of profit that they're handing out to exec's and stockholders. Profit that if forced, they could use to allow them to accept anyone and cover all their pre-existing conditions with no waiting period. By having a government option, it will force them to not only lower their premiums but, use some of that profit to provide quality health care, if they want to keep operating. In other words, they can stay in business if they're willing to be less greedy. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

When it comes to health care reform, it's doesn't matter what insurance companies in general make, do or get away with....all that matters is what insurance companies that provide health insurance, make by doing it and how they do it.

Here's what kind of dividends get paid out annually to stockholders of the four largest corporations that market health plans....the number in parentheses is the stock price as of today:

WellPoint N/A (53.73)
Aetna $.04 (29.11)
United HealthCare $.03 (28.20)
Cigna $.04 (29.69)

Here are some quotes from an article in US News and World Report (a link to which is at the bottom):

President Obama has already singled out insurers as the villains responsible for exorbitant healthcare costs that are bankrupting families and businesses and making care unattainable for millions. Rep. Henry Waxman, chair of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, has asked 52 insurance providers for detailed data on pay and perks for executives, junkets for employees, and other ways they spend the money that comes from premiums paid by policyholders.

It seems likely that such an ambitious fishing expedition will reel in a few morsels useful for tarring the whole industry. But on the whole, blaming insurance firms for runaway healthcare costs is a weak argument, because the insurance industry isn't all that profitable to start with.

Some critics would like to see a healthcare sector that's entirely nonprofit, but most Americans seem comfortable with the existing system of for-profit healthcare providers, at least at some levels. Otherwise, the majority of Americans wouldn't say they're satisfied with their existing coverage, and there wouldn't be so much discomfort over the idea of government-funded healthcare. So if you're comfortable with the profit motive, the next step is to determine a fair profit margin for companies in the healthcare industry. This is where there's bad news for Obama, Waxman, et al.

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin.

Among the large, for-profit health insurers, profit margins line up with the industry as a whole. UnitedHealthGroup, the biggest health insurer, had a 4.1 percent profit margin over the past 12 months. WellPoint, the next biggest, had a 4 percent profit margin. Aetna, Cigna, and Humana came in below that.

Unitedhealth Group (healthcare plans): 4.1 percent
WellPoint (healthcare plans): 4 percent
Aetna (healthcare plans): 3.9 percent
Cigna (healthcare plans): 3.2 percent (this one I had to look up my self....it wasn't in the article)

Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains - Rick Newman (usnews.com)

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Old 08-29-2009, 05:34 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,117,192 times
Reputation: 5941
And this is how they make that profit:
Froma Harrop: Private insurers’ death panels | Columnists | projo.com | The Providence Journal

Maybe the poor struggling insurance companies that you feel so sorry for would have a bigger margin if executive wages weren't so ridiculous....
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