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Old 08-31-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Southeast
4,301 posts, read 7,022,679 times
Reputation: 1464

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17th Street View Post
I would not say that the US is either overrated or underrated. It's just another place. Seriously, in most countries people boast about how wonderful their country is, it's call being nationalistic, and it's relatively normal.
Yes nationalism is quite prevalent throughout the world. It was also one of the root causes of three large and deadly wars in Europe in the last 2 centuries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Germany has made top cars now for almost 100 years. So, tell me; why don't you emulate and finally make a car which is at least half as good?
A lot of German autos are made in the US, then exported to Germany. As a matter of fact, just a few months ago Volkswagen chose a site in Tennessee for a massive new plant, with the final product set for export. Having a weak dollar does have its benefits, with the US becoming a source of cheap labor for many European corporations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY View Post
I do agree with you on the US being overrated. The US is a beautiful country that I love, and give it due credit, but will agree that it is overrated. We as Americans tend to boast too much, while many of us never step foot outside this country.
It would take a lifetime to explore and visit every corner of the US, and to truly take in the variety of people, cultures, natural wonders, etc. Easy to see why most Americans have no desire to travel outside of the country.. There is just so much to do here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Basically the baby of the lot.
The 'baby' of the lot taught European imperialistic powers not to be so oppressive towards their own people or colonies. Inspired by the success of the American revolution, oppressed colonies around the world tried their hand in independence. Some succeeded, some failed, but in the end, European powers took a lesson from it, and transformed their governments throughout the 19th century into more democratic regimes.

So in that regard, Europe is like the stubborn old man in the room who refuses to change old ways. They instead insist on launching 3 (yes 3) world wars that sent millions to their deaths.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
No, its true. Haven't we had enough of the 'ugly american' abroad who behaves like a jerk, and whinge every time something doesn't suit him? They embarrass themselves and behave like Bush on his foreign visits which used to be quite the stunner for everyone. The more they behave like jerks, the more people avoid them and finally they are left all on their own.
Well, on the plus side at least the French have taken the title of the 'most obnoxious tourists' from the US. One category you should not be proud to be #1 in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Besides, why the heck do so many American tourists YELL when they talk??? Is it really that difficult to talk in a normal tone?
To **** off the locals.

 
Old 08-31-2009, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,423,051 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXIronHorse View Post

Denmark and other socialist countries are great for underachievers, who don't have a shred of guilt for working as little as possible at the expense of those who produce.

America doesn't work that way. America didn't become the greatest economic superpower in the history of the world because those who worked less got things for free from those who worked more.

While Denmark is a great place to be an underachiever, America is the place to become the next Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, etc. America is where you find real life rags-to-riches stories. The system may not seem fair, but capitalism is the system with the greatest opportunity for economic and social mobility.
This is ignorant on so many levels, it's stunning.

I'm married to a Dane, so my entire family of in-laws live in Denmark. We go home every single year, so I have been there often and know dozens and dozens of people who live and work there. I have family and friends who live on farms, raise and train horses, family who are doctors (a surgeon, and OB-Gyn, a dentist), lawyers, teachers, IT professionals, and many, many other professions. My husband's grandparents owned an art gallery for decades, and sold it for millions of kroner when they retired.

These people work hard and have wonderful lives. Some of their homes are like walking into museums! They have their family homes and Summer homes at the shore. They vacation in places like Greece, Turkey, France, Madagascar, Thailand -- even the "poorest" of them!

Repubocrat, I'm glad you had such a great time there. My family lives on the Jutland peninsula, mostly in towns around Aarhus. It's such a charming city -- I just love it!

While we're enjoying living in the U.S. for now, we fully intend to retire in Denmark, and perhaps move back there sooner than that. It's not just a fabulous country to visit, but there's probably no better place to be a retiree!

ETA: One of the artists my grandparents-in-law discovered and helped launch the career of, is Sergei Sviatchenko (theirs was Gallery Nord on this list (http://www.photo-edition-berlin.com/sergei/biography_sergei.htm - broken link)). If you don't think Sviatchenko is a wealthy man, you're clearly not thinking.

Last edited by Jill61; 08-31-2009 at 12:52 PM..
 
Old 08-31-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Floribama
18,948 posts, read 43,421,357 times
Reputation: 18748
Aren't the people in Denmark starting to get very irritated with all of the burqa wearing immigrants (a result of liberal immigration policies)?
 
Old 08-31-2009, 12:53 PM
 
5,165 posts, read 6,043,391 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
Aren't the people in Denmark starting to get very irritated with all of the burqa wearing immigrants (a result of liberal immigration policies)?
Muslim intergration is a problem to alot of Europeans.

Europeans have just as many biases and use sterotyping as much as Americans.

There are several racial and ethnic divisions in Europe:
Spain has the basaque sepratists, Ireland has the North/South divide, Belgium has the French/Dutch divide, Eastern Europeans and now more western Europeans hate the Gypsies, Bosnia is still a divided mess, any more...

So to all you who arrogant supposedly open minded liberals, who think Europe is perfect and better on all levels then America... put that in your pipe and smoke it.


Basque Separatists - MSN Encarta

BBC NEWS | Europe | Call to bridge West-Muslim divide

BBC NEWS | Europe | War of words in divided Belgium
 
Old 08-31-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Texas
989 posts, read 2,494,764 times
Reputation: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jill61 View Post
This is ignorant on so many levels, it's stunning.

I'm married to a Dane, so my entire family of in-laws live in Denmark. We go home every single year, so I have been there often and know dozens and dozens of people who live and work there. I have family and friends who live on farms, raise and train horses, family who are doctors (a surgeon, and OB-Gyn, a dentist), lawyers, teachers, IT professionals, and many, many other professions. My husband's grandparents owned an art gallery for decades, and sold it for millions of kroner when they retired.

These people work hard and have wonderful lives. Some of their homes are like walking into museums! They have their family homes and Summer homes at the shore. They vacation in places like Greece, Turkey, France, Madagascar, Thailand -- even the "poorest" of them!
What you are describing sounds more like aristocrats than hard-working folks contributing to an economy.

I know some old-money Europeans continue to do well, regardless of the extreme tax burden. However, they surely don't fall into the overachiever category in my opinion!
 
Old 08-31-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
7,835 posts, read 8,423,051 times
Reputation: 8564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXIronHorse View Post

What you are describing sounds more like aristocrats than hard-working folks contributing to an economy.

I know some old-money Europeans continue to do well, regardless of the extreme tax burden. However, they surely don't fall into the overachiever category in my opinion!
Are you effing kidding me?

Aristocrats?

These people were resistance fighters during the war. One grandparent was a POW held in Italy. My aunt is a holocaust survivor. Two of my sisters-in-law live on farms.

There's not a dime of "old money" in my family. Every one of them has worked their asses off to earn what they've acquired.

Knock off your absurd generalizations and just admit you're flat out wrong.





ETA: P.S. My husband is sitting here laughing his ass off over the idea that he and his family are aristocrats. :snort:
 
Old 08-31-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomDot View Post
Who's telling you this? Where on a daily basis can I find this?

Do you realize that only 60 or so years ago that wonderful land you idolize so much went through a 25 year period where over 100 million people were butchered or starved and that half it's cities were razed by bombs?

I don't expect a reply from you because I know that that is not your modus operandi.
You can find it right here on CD.
How can you possibly miss it?
60 years is 2 generations. You seem to be overlooking the fact that the world moves at breakneck speed compared to 60 years ago.

And now we're bombing other countries to smithereens.
Go USA.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I love the way the Right Winger’s assume that a socialist cushion under the down sides of life precludes ambition, productivity and great wealth. IIRC most people will take much larger financial chances if losing cannot result in poverty. I see Denmark and much of the rest of Europe as a place that has replaced financial coercion with a secure environment for all. Without economic fear, people can excel or not as they chose.
Ikea and Aldi (also owners of Trader Joes).
Those damned socialist countries.
No one will ever make anything of themselves.
Slackers.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 01:21 PM
 
46,892 posts, read 25,860,181 times
Reputation: 29354
Default Wow, that raised some hackles...

Speaking as a born-and-bred Dane who's called the US home for the last 7 years, perhaps I may be allowed to join the fray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Repubocrat View Post
Spent a few days in Copenhagen and Arhus and I had the greatest experience. I had been doing some research about Denmark especially given the fact that they are overall the happiest people in the world and the most satisfied with their health care system
Glad you liked my home shores. I lived in Arhus for quite a long time, great little city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I wonder if the OP is aware of this aspect of Danish polity and feels that it is an important atrribute of the general state of contentment among the Danes -- and if it might be something the US ought also to emulate?

Article 4 in the Constitution of Denmark stipulates that "The Evangelical Lutheran Church is the National Church and shall be supported by the state".
Yeah, about that. Danes don't take religion that bloody seriously, and the state church is the tamest religion to ever go by that name. If you don't feel like contributing, don't. There's even a box to check on the tax form. Exactly one person is obliged to be a member of the religion: The monarch.

As for those $23 per year, well - there is a cultural heritage that current generations are obliged to keep in good repair. 11th century cathedrals just can't be maintained on bake sale income and volunteerism. I'm as agnostic as they come, but that sure as hell never bothered me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXIronHorse View Post
You were on vacation, dude. Try living there, including starting a business, buying a home, or paying taxes. Then come back and tell us how great Denmark is.
I have lived there, owned a home and paid taxes. Buying a home was way easier than in the US. The amount of paperwork (and the number of people who wanted their little cut of my money) over here was absolutely staggering.

Taxes were higher, sure - but the service level was pretty good, too. The health care paperwork in the US is completely out of control, and it drains money out of the health care sector. I was utterly surprised that a metropol the size of LA had such ****-poor public transportation.

As for starting a business, I sure know a couple of successful entrepeneurs among friends and family. (And one rather less successful, such is the nature of entrepeneurship.) One thing that makes it easier to strike out on your own is, ironically, tax-funded healthcare. You can start a business and even if you run it into the ground, your family maintains their health care coverage. Your kid still gets to go to college.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
It's too crowded for my tastes and the taxes are sky high and the government discourages individualism and self-reliance (witness the taxes on vehicles, aimed at forcing people to rely on public transit which in turn would force you to live in a city, which while claimed to be for environmental purposes has in fact had the effect of making the cars that are privately owned, older, inefficient models).
Denmark is not the place for wilderness. No argument there. My brother-in-law hunts in a big way, but most of the countryside is agricultural.

The car and fuel taxes were a reaction to the 1970s oil crisis, where the government realized that being dependent on oil was not a long-term tenable situation. The average car is smaller and older - it's not that huge of cultural icon. But if a big car is important to you, make some money and buy one. Tons of people do.

Lowering the reliance on foreign oil was just a smart move.

Quote:
Also, would you want your tax money going to support an official state church? In Denmark it does, and that church is not my own.
The church is also the keeper of 1100 years of historical and cultural heritage. Its upkeep would have to be funded, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXIronHorse View Post
Denmark and other socialist countries are great for underachievers, who don't have a shred of guilt for working as little as possible at the expense of those who produce.
That turns out to be surprisingly few. The entire Maslow pyramid thing comes into play - once your basic needs are covered, you move on to self-realization, making something of yourself.

Besides, there are demands that come with reliance on public funds. The one time I had a few months between high school and army service, I walked down to the local unemployment office to see if they'd give me some cash. (I was young.) The following Monday at 7 AM, I was wielding a chainsaw in one of the national forests. In the rain.

That being said, the public sector could do with some slimming down. Nothing's perfect.

Quote:
While Denmark is a great place to be an underachiever, America is the place to become the next Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Michael Dell, etc. America is where you find real life rags-to-riches stories.
Well, actually... Social mobility is higher in most of Europe. University education is tax-funded and based on merit, not on ability to raise the cash for tuition. Making sure that the achievers have every option to get as much education as they can handle is another effect of the entire high level of public service.

For a country with a population half the size of LA, there are a handful of halfway decent companies where you can put your talents to good use: Maersk, Novo Nordisk, Grundfos, Danfoss, Vestas - to name a few.

There's even all sorts of public assistance and publicly-underwritten loans if you want to strike out on your own.

Quote:
The system may not seem fair, but capitalism is the system with the greatest opportunity for economic and social mobility.
You're aware that Denmark is firmly based on a market economy, right? Denmark has never been able to base anything on its available natural resources. Without a thriving market, there'd not be a lot to live on. Some seem to think it's a version of East Germany, and that's just not the case.
 
Old 08-31-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,685 posts, read 6,412,070 times
Reputation: 1232
DANE_in_LA, Great post. Glad you came along and opened some eyes. Kudos, my friend.
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