Do you support the war on pornography? (ethical, revolution, lobby)

[solidsquid]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I agree, porn is for sad losers who obviously are lacking in the maturity and adequacy department.

I wouldn't go quite that far usually, but with some posters on this thread, well you might just have convinced me !

I would have to adamantly disagree with your disparaging remarks. I would disagree, friends I have who are adult entertainers would disagree, and you'd be very surprised at who views porn on the internet - working for the IT department at a university and a community college you can find out where people (staff, faculty and students) surf on the net and many of them have had prolonged stays on pornographic sites many times.

Therefore, you should not be so quick to judge the character of others just because they look at porn - you are not holier than thou simply because of your censure of something you view as deviant. I personally find such intolerance in this context abhorrent.

I'd much rather people "get their jollies" as another put it from watching sex than getting their jollies from watching beheadings, eviscerations and the like. However, the violence is more tolerated than sex.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I agree Saganista , there is not a "necessary" link but the reality is that organised crime and the porn industry are linked at the moment, and therefore anyone who indulges in it is basically condoning a kind of horrific slavery so they can have a bit of fun. I find this incredibly selfish and inhumane as well as naive for people to say "not my problem, hey I am only watching consenting American starlets anyway".

Per the earlier, I agree with your basic point, but as we know, the federal government of this country and a group of criminal neocons are also inextricably linked at the moment, and I shouldn't want to think of myself as condoning criminal neocons merely through my choice to drive on a road that was built with federal highway funds. What we need here is some of that weed-killer that doesn't harm the grass. Rooting out the human traffickers and the elements of organized crime should be the goal, not necessarily wiping anything considered somewhere to be pornographic off the map.

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I do believe that pornography dehumanizes sex and makes it tawdry and nasty and is demeaning to women but I would not ban it if it was regulated and I could be assured that it was a "clean" industry regarding human rights. As it is not , yes I do think it should be banned until people start realising that their actions have impact on others.

I'd agree that porn can debase sex and that some does, but not all. As some have said here, it can serve as an evocative aide in spurring broader exploration of the erotic aspects of a relationship, it can serve as a simple substitute for more serious behaviors during times of separation, and it's even used at times in therapeutic regimens. None of these is such a bad thing. I certainly don't believe that we can count on an industry ability to self-police with any degree of vigor, so the answer, it seems to me, is to create a transparent safe-zone for those not involved in the shady side, and then go after the rest with such diligence as we can muster.

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I have never met a woman who was happy about pornography though most do pretend to enjoy it to keep their partners happy and to not be called "frigid". I think it is naive to call it harmless fun though as it is a form of exploitation and IMO any form of exploitation should be condemned and dealt with.

I don't know what the case is today, but I do know that in my college years, crews from Playboy would show up off-campus from time to time, and all they had to do was put an ad in the local paper to be literally overrun with young women willing to stand in line for hours for the chance to take their clothes off in front of the camera. An early version of American Idol? I don't know, but that's what happened.

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Having to rely on pornography like a lot of men do for kicks is rather sad and creepy in my opinion. Having fantastic and loving sex should not require porn.

For some, it may be a matter of relying and requiring, and that's probably not so healthy. But for most, I would guess it's a matter of incorporating. The sensual apsect of humanity is both physical and mental, and I can certainly see where erotic representations, whether as text or as images, might play a quite legitimate role in that.

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

It seems most people really do not care as long as their own little lives benefits from this. That I do find extremely disturbing indeed.

In a sense, I think the problem is that camouflaged representatives of the viler sides of human nature have inveigled their way into nearly every industry. The porn industry is merely one of them. The prevalence and degree of excess in that industry might well make it one of the more important ones to go after, but the option of simply seeking to shut the industry down seems to me both too blunt an instrument to employ, and too improbable of actual success. See War on Drugs as an example there...

[davidt1]

Men have lusted after women since the dawn of civilization. Underneath that lust, exists a biological reason: to mate and procreate. For religious folks, God made men that way so they find women and start families. In other words, men have always worshiped women in one form or another, whether it's through scintillating lingeries, erotic stories, or bare pictures. It is important to keep this mind -- the worshiping of females.

The overzealous morality nuts want you to believe that today's porn is linked to human trafficking. Human trafficking occurred long before the internet was invented. They will lie and use scare tactic to make you think that something is wrong with you if you watch porn. Many sex perverts, on the contrary, did not view porn frequently, if any. Priests convicted of sex crimes from the catholic church are good examples. These folks were convicted of the worst of all sex crimes -- sexual abuse of children. I will leave you to draw your conclusion on the morality crusaders.

I totally agree that child, animal and violent porns should not be allowed. These are already illegal in many countries. You may or may not agree with porn, but do not censor the right of others who choose to view it.

[bigreez]

this is so funny I had no idea ther was a porn war a brewin. What shal the weapons be I dont think I want to know. Just how will we name a winner this is all so rediculos, Like is there a gardening war brewin. Wake up people we are expected to welcome gay people ,sheep hearders, pronographers and normal folks the same any more. If you dont you will be a bigot that is the times we are in.

[Lisa_from_Debary]

Originally Posted by davidt1

I was just on a couple of sordid websites getting some jollies. I am back now. Lisa, I am sorry to hear that you have not had someone in your life in for five years. You sound like a sweet person. Cats are nice. I like them too. But I know you deserve better than hanging out with cats all day.

I don't have anyone in my life because I don't want or need someone...I am a single Mother and a student so I do ALOT more then hanging out with cats all day.

Dr Mary Anne Layden, director of the University of Pennsylvania's sexual trauma and psychopathology program, says that "even non sex-addicts will show brain reactions on PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans while viewing pornography similar to cocaine addicts looking at images of cocaine. She also goes on to say that porn addicts behave like any other addict, the content that once excited them soon becomes not enough and they have to indulge in more and more extreme viewing of material to reach the same level of excitement. In the beginning of their viewing they feel that sex with children or animals is TOO FAR but then end up resorting to that in time in order to get excited.

Luanne Cole Weston, PhD, sex therapist, says that viewing porn can hinder intimacy in a relationship.

Is Pornography Addictive? Part 1

This article has alot of interesting things to say, men that use porn develop a sexual callousness to women, men and women who view porn are more likely to trivalize rape.

I stand by my original assesment, I would not become involved with a man who indulged in the viewing of porn.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

I don't have anyone in my life because I don't want or need someone...I am a single Mother and a student so I do ALOT more then hanging out with cats all day.

Dr Mary Anne Layden, director of the University of Pennsylvania's sexual trauma and psychopathology program, says that "even non sex-addicts will show brain reactions on PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans while viewing pornography similar to cocaine addicts looking at images of cocaine. She also goes on to say that porn addicts behave like any other addict, the content that once excited them soon becomes not enough and they have to indulge in more and more extreme viewing of material to reach the same level of excitement. In the beginning of their viewing they feel that sex with children or animals is TOO FAR but then end up resorting to that in time in order to get excited.

Luanne Cole Weston, PhD, sex therapist, says that viewing porn can hinder intimacy in a relationship.

Is Pornography Addictive? Part 1

This article has alot of interesting things to say, men that use porn develop a sexual callousness to women, men and women who view porn are more likely to trivalize rape.

I stand by my original assesment, I would not become involved with a man who indulged in the viewing of porn.

Hear, Hear !

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by solidsquid

I would have to adamantly disagree with your disparaging remarks. I would disagree, friends I have who are adult entertainers would disagree, and you'd be very surprised at who views porn on the internet - working for the IT department at a university and a community college you can find out where people (staff, faculty and students) surf on the net and many of them have had prolonged stays on pornographic sites many times.

Therefore, you should not be so quick to judge the character of others just because they look at porn - you are not holier than thou simply because of your censure of something you view as deviant. I personally find such intolerance in this context abhorrent.

I'd much rather people "get their jollies" as another put it from watching sex than getting their jollies from watching beheadings, eviscerations and the like. However, the violence is more tolerated than sex.

I did not say they were not intelligent. I said mature.
And I do find anyone who does think that an industry vastly based on exploitation of any group is acceptable very disturbing indeed. Yes some porn industry people are happy, consenting and well adjusted human beings but according to most research most are not. Even women who see themselves as willing have been shown to have a lot of self destructive and low self esteem behaviour. And regarding internet porn , considering the human trafficking issues I mentioned ( and I have spoken to women and kids who have ended up in the so called"adult" entertainment business so I am not just making this up), I am not quite sure how your mature and adequate friends can ensure that none of these "fun" websites do not contribute to the sum of human suffering out there.
It's so easy to just blame the drug dealers when the real problem is the drug taker. No market for something , no problem.

I don't find this behaviour deviant as it is the norm rather than the exception. However I do find it really sad . Sex should be fun for ALL people involved. If it coerced in any way ( whether through feeling there is no though other option but to act in those movies through poverty or because organised crime has kidnapped you and sold you as a slave for the sex industry) then it is a human tragedy.
And I find that very much abhorrent.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by davidt1

Men have lusted after women since the dawn of civilization. Underneath that lust, exists a biological reason: to mate and procreate. For religious folks, God made men that way so they find women and start families. In other words, men have always worshiped women in one form or another, whether it's through scintillating lingeries, erotic stories, or bare pictures. It is important to keep this mind -- the worshiping of females.

The overzealous morality nuts want you to believe that today's porn is linked to human trafficking. Human trafficking occurred long before the internet was invented. They will lie and use scare tactic to make you think that something is wrong with you if you watch porn. Many sex perverts, on the contrary, did not view porn frequently, if any. Priests convicted of sex crimes from the catholic church are good examples. These folks were convicted of the worst of all sex crimes -- sexual abuse of children. I will leave you to draw your conclusion on the morality crusaders.

I totally agree that child, animal and violent porns should not be allowed. These are already illegal in many countries. You may or may not agree with porn, but do not censor the right of others who choose to view it.

I am not a morality nut. Clean up the industry, regulate it and make sure it is safe for all people involved in it, and I will have no problem with it apart from my own personal judgement which I have no desire to impose on others. Because human trafficking has existed since the dawn of time, this is hardly a good reason to carry on. Raping your wife used to be acceptable, it is no longer. We do have the intellectual capacity and are evolved enough as human beings to think of others and how our behaviour impacts them.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by saganista

Per the earlier, I agree with your basic point, but as we know, the federal government of this country and a group of criminal neocons are also inextricably linked at the moment, and I shouldn't want to think of myself as condoning criminal neocons merely through my choice to drive on a road that was built with federal highway funds. What we need here is some of that weed-killer that doesn't harm the grass. Rooting out the human traffickers and the elements of organized crime should be the goal, not necessarily wiping anything considered somewhere to be pornographic off the map.


I'd agree that porn can debase sex and that some does, but not all. As some have said here, it can serve as an evocative aide in spurring broader exploration of the erotic aspects of a relationship, it can serve as a simple substitute for more serious behaviors during times of separation, and it's even used at times in therapeutic regimens. None of these is such a bad thing. I certainly don't believe that we can count on an industry ability to self-police with any degree of vigor, so the answer, it seems to me, is to create a transparent safe-zone for those not involved in the shady side, and then go after the rest with such diligence as we can muster.


I don't know what the case is today, but I do know that in my college years, crews from Playboy would show up off-campus from time to time, and all they had to do was put an ad in the local paper to be literally overrun with young women willing to stand in line for hours for the chance to take their clothes off in front of the camera. An early version of American Idol? I don't know, but that's what happened.


For some, it may be a matter of relying and requiring, and that's probably not so healthy. But for most, I would guess it's a matter of incorporating. The sensual apsect of humanity is both physical and mental, and I can certainly see where erotic representations, whether as text or as images, might play a quite legitimate role in that.


In a sense, I think the problem is that camouflaged representatives of the viler sides of human nature have inveigled their way into nearly every industry. The porn industry is merely one of them. The prevalence and degree of excess in that industry might well make it one of the more important ones to go after, but the option of simply seeking to shut the industry down seems to me both too blunt an instrument to employ, and too improbable of actual success. See War on Drugs as an example there...

I agree with a lot of your points broadly but as the reality of the porn industry is one which is generally , at this time such a seedy one I think action is needed now. My personal views on pornography per se are not something I wish to impose on anyone ( I disapprove of it but have no desire to impose restrictions on it ) as long as it has no adverse effects on human beings who are vulnerable. I think the reason it is such a huge industry prey to organised crime and drugs link is because users of porn exercise no discrimination as to what they "enjoy" as long as it's good for them. They create a market which ends up being fed as they don't care whether the people in the sex industry are coerced or truly consenting. I find this extremely distasteful to ignore the plight of others and in fact encourage it.
I could not care less what people do in their own bedroom
as long as no one is hurt by their avid demand for more.

I love sex and am not a prude or a moral crusader against eroticism. I believe porn does go too far though. One of the greatest pleasures in life is to explore your own sexuality with a partner. I am completely puzzled how a third party is necessary but if people need this to feel adequate and satisfied then whatever rocks their boat.
Once again as long as it is a clean industry and a regulated one where nobody is exploited.
The women who are vulnerable and exploited need help now, not in a remote future . One way of doing this is to ensure a cleaner industry and a more transparent one. One way of doing this is for porn users to demand it is done. Like any market it feeds on demand and has to comply with customer concerns. No customers, no market. I find it extremely shocking that some posters almost gloat that they don't care. If their girlfriends/wives or daughters were put through what those faceless women are put through, I would like to believe they would not think it is all done in harmless fun. This is not victimless crime. Anything but.

As for the fact that the porn industry and magazines like Playboy are inundated by women wanting to be in the porn industry , I think it has to do a lot more about money and being famous than them wanting to give pleasure to men. They exploit men but also themselves which is fine by me. Unfortunately IMO they also exploit me as a lot of men who lie porn end up thinking that all women are "asking for it", and that women deserve no respect. These women are nothing more than goods for sale and orifices to be filled. And to me that is totally repugnant , debasing and demeaning of the entire human race. Human beings should not be goods to be bartered for.
I know I sound like a broken record but I just can't see how porn can in any way be a positive thing. But once again as long nobody is coerced I feel unable to force my judgement on anyone else.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I agree Saganista , there is not a "necessary" link but the reality is that organised crime and the porn industry are linked at the moment, and therefore anyone who indulges in it is basically condoning a kind of horrific slavery so they can have a bit of fun. I find this incredibly selfish and inhumane as well as naive for people to say "not my problem, hey I am only watching consenting American starlets anyway".

I do believe that pornography dehumanizes sex and makes it tawdry and nasty and is demeaning to women but I would not ban it if it was regulated and I could be assured that it was a "clean" industry regarding human rights. As it is not , yes I do think it should be banned until people start realising that their actions have impact on others.

I have never met a woman who was happy about pornography though most do pretend to enjoy it to keep their partners happy and to not be called"frigid". I think it is naive to call it harmless fun though as it is a form of exploitation and IMO any form of exploitation should be condemned and dealt with.

I am lucky enough to have a partner who is mature enough to realise how puerile and sad the whole thing is. We talked very openly about this issue since we started our relationship and he agrees with me. Having to rely on pornography like a lot of men do for kicks is rather sad and creepy in my opinion. Having fantastic and loving sex should not require porn.

Another issue is with the booming of internet pornography , human rights and human trafficking issues will be even more of a problem. Most porn is now downloaded from PCs , and it is impossible to regulate so how on earth do you know whether the woman you are watching is consenting and happy, or a sex slave who is being forced to perform?
It seems most people really do not care as long as their own little lives benefits from this. That I do find extremely disturbing indeed.

This post is complete bull. If you REALLY feel this way, stop going to Wal-Mart. Stop buying merchandise that is produced by REAL slaves, not some contrived defintion that you've concocted to make a fallicious point. You have no evidence to back your claims. In fact, your post only serves to expose you as a hypocrite.