Do you support the war on pornography? (accuse, dollar, terrorism)

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

I have been single for 5 years...I really don't want another man in my life...certainly not one who cheapens sex in that way...no thanks.

I have cats...I get along better with males better once they have been declawed and castrated.

<snip>

Pornography regulation is nothing more than another tool of social control. While I completely agree with criminalizing CHILD pornography (because there is a crime and victim), I see nothing wrong with adult pornography. And there is nothing that a religious or some other anal rententive zealot can do to change my mind. The ONLY reason you feel the way you do is because you have been programmed, by society, to feel that way. That's right, programmed.

[solidsquid]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

I don't have anyone in my life because I don't want or need someone...I am a single Mother and a student so I do ALOT more then hanging out with cats all day.

Dr Mary Anne Layden, director of the University of Pennsylvania's sexual trauma and psychopathology program, says that "even non sex-addicts will show brain reactions on PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans while viewing pornography similar to cocaine addicts looking at images of cocaine. She also goes on to say that porn addicts behave like any other addict, the content that once excited them soon becomes not enough and they have to indulge in more and more extreme viewing of material to reach the same level of excitement. In the beginning of their viewing they feel that sex with children or animals is TOO FAR but then end up resorting to that in time in order to get excited.

Luanne Cole Weston, PhD, sex therapist, says that viewing porn can hinder intimacy in a relationship.

Is Pornography Addictive? Part 1

This article has alot of interesting things to say, men that use porn develop a sexual callousness to women, men and women who view porn are more likely to trivalize rape.

I stand by my original assesment, I would not become involved with a man who indulged in the viewing of porn.

As someone who studies the brain I can tell you that people can become addicted to just about anything which activates particular reactionary pathways for reward (specifically dopaminergic pathways). Addiction has less to do with the specific item and more to do with triggering brain chemistry.

Your example is rebutted by the fact that millions of men and women view pornography and have healthy intimate relationships - some often accentuated by the use of adult material. People think porn will turn someone into some deviant whereas it is more likely that deviancy seeks out porn - the thinking is often backwards. The article you cited focuses on those who are addicted to sex and pornography and lumps them in with pedophiles and people with other similar disorders. I despise pop psychology - lack of citation of references is usually a good indicator.

The fact is that so many people cry about how free this country is until something they dislike appears, then they call for it to be destroyed. Freedom means dealing with things you don't like or agree with.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

This post is complete bull. If you REALLY feel this way, stop going to Wal-Mart. Stop buying merchandise that is produced by REAL slaves, not some contrived defintion that you've concocted to make a fallicious point. You have no evidence to back your claims. In fact, your post only serves to expose you as a hypocrite.

Actually I do shop as ethically as is possible and ALWAYS try to think before I do act how my actions affect other human beings. You know nothing about my lifestyle so please don't tell me about me being a hypocrite. I may fail on many occasions but I am heavily involved in trying to make things a bit better. I am a very active of Amnesty, Greenpeace and Survival as well as Victims of Torture and the"notforsale"campaign.I try to shop in co-ops with more transparent policiesand always ask how and where my goods are produced. I lobby parliament on a regualar basis to raise the standards of business ethics and my financial services are produced by ethical funds.Slavery and Exploitation are issues I take seriously indeed. I would never shop at Wal Mart, buy Nike trainers or buy L'Oreal products , just to quote a few examples ( the list would be far too long to list but I am a member of the Ethical shopping guide). I try to only buy fair trade products, humanely reared meat and fish sourced from responsible sources. What you call hypocrisy is caring about cause and effect. And I have not concocted this, may you should get out a bit more and try to stay informed. I am sure all research into organised crime and the sex industry ,and respect worthy organisation such as Amnesty are just trying to stop you from having a bit of fun just because . Now that is a load of BS.

If you think porn is a clean industry I think you are seriously deluding yourself.

[solidsquid]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

I did not say they were not intelligent. I said mature.
And I do find anyone who does think that an industry vastly based on exploitation of any group is acceptable very disturbing indeed. Yes some porn industry people are happy, consenting and well adjusted human beings but according to most research most are not. Even women who see themselves as willing have been shown to have a lot of self destructive and low self esteem behaviour. And regarding internet porn , considering the human trafficking issues I mentioned ( and I have spoken to women and kids who have ended up in the so called"adult" entertainment business so I am not just making this up), I am not quite sure how your mature and adequate friends can ensure that none of these "fun" websites do not contribute to the sum of human suffering out there.
It's so easy to just blame the drug dealers when the real problem is the drug taker. No market for something , no problem.

I don't find this behaviour deviant as it is the norm rather than the exception. However I do find it really sad . Sex should be fun for ALL people involved. If it coerced in any way ( whether through feeling there is no though other option but to act in those movies through poverty or because organised crime has kidnapped you and sold you as a slave for the sex industry) then it is a human tragedy.
And I find that very much abhorrent.

Again you have missed what I wrote, you should read it and comprehend. You also continually make the assertion of pornography being the reason for human trafficking, operations by organized crime and so forth yet you fail to provide any evidence past your own anecdotes. I believe this has more to do with your perceptions of something you dislike causing you to amplify possible correlations which are far from the mean. I find it sad that you pity so those who can enjoy watching porn - the manner you present it is very trite and contemptuous. Porn in this country is not some widely underground business where movies are made in someone's basement with kidnapped girls from the suburbs like you envision it. These people are often very well paid, well taken care of and are not coerced into this line of work - they choose to be there. Watching too many Lifetime movies can make for an incorrect assessment.

This is the U.S., not Cambodia.

[Aqualung]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Actually I do shop as ethically as is possible and ALWAYS try to think before I do act how my actions affect other human beings. You know nothing about my lifestyle so please don't tell me about me being a hypocrite. I may fail on many occasions but I am heavily involved in trying to make things a bit better. I am a very active of Amnesty, Greenpeace and Survival as well as Victims of Torture and the"notforsale"campaign.I try to shop in co-ops with more transparent policiesand always ask how and where my goods are produced. I lobby parliament on a regualar basis to raise the standards of business ethics and my financial services are produced by ethical funds.Slavery and Exploitation are issues I take seriously indeed. I would never shop at Wal Mart, buy Nike trainers or buy L'Oreal products , just to quote a few examples ( the list would be far too long to list but I am a member of the Ethical shopping guide). I try to only buy fair trade products, humanely reared meat and fish sourced from responsible sources. What you call hypocrisy is caring about cause and effect. And I have not concocted this, may you should get out a bit more and try to stay informed. I am sure all research into organised crime and the sex industry ,and respect worthy organisation such as Amnesty are just trying to stop you from having a bit of fun just because . Now that is a load of BS.

If you think porn is a clean industry I think you are seriously deluding yourself.

You're one in a million, Mooseketeer, as far as your buying habits are concerned. I'm still waiting for those sources, btw.

I don't think the porn industry is clean. I believe you are exaggerating the problem. The truth is, EVERY industry is corrupted in one way or another. Hell, the banking industry is responsible for FAR, FAR more suffering than the porn industry could even dream. Actually, it's responsible for far more suffering than entire segments of the world economy.

[GregW]

Do I really have to add the "War on Pornography" to the “War on Poverty", the “War on Drugs”, the “War on Terrorism” and the “War on whatever else”? I am getting really tired of these falsely labeled “Wars”.

Porn is the despised stepchild of the Hollywood delusion masters and was made illegal and vastly profitable by mostly religious prudes that saw pleasure as a threat to their control of the flock. When it was illegal it spawned criminal gangs just as alcohol and drug prohibition do. Current porn is still considered “dirty” by many but they are not forced to watch or participate in a legal activity so as far as I am concerned they can just shut up and leave the rest of us free to do what we want.

[Lisa_from_Debary]

Originally Posted by Aqualung

I'm sorry you have such an uptight view of sex. It's really sad that you've been alone for 5 years.

Pornography regulation is nothing more than another tool of social control. While I completely agree with criminalizing CHILD pornography (because there is a crime and victim), I see nothing wrong with adult pornography. And there is nothing that a religious or some other anal rententive zealot can do to change my mind. The ONLY reason you feel the way you do is because you have been programmed, by society, to feel that way. That's right, programmed.

I think its kind of funny (and so would my partners from the past) that you think I have an uptight view on sex. My views on porn do not in anyway effect how fulfilling my sex life has been when I am in a committed relationship.

I have NOT been programmed, I am not even christian, no church or supposed god dictates how I feel about things...these are my opinions as a woman.

The reality is that my sexual needs don't govern my behavior unlike MOST men out there...men like this are closer to animals then people.

I have NO desire to change your mind...why would I care what you do? I only stated how I feel about it.

I hope someday you mature enough to know the difference between having morals and being programmed.

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by Lisa_from_Debary

I think its kind of funny (and so would my partners from the past) that you think I have an uptight view on sex. My views on porn do not in anyway effect how fulfilling my sex life has been when I am in a committed relationship.

I have NOT been programmed, I am not even christian, no church or supposed god dictates how I feel about things...these are my opinions as a woman.

The reality is that my sexual needs don't govern my behavior unlike MOST men out there...men like this are closer to animals then people.

I have NO desire to change your mind...why would I care what you do? I only stated how I feel about it.

I hope someday you mature enough to know the difference between having morals and being programmed.

Once again Lisa, I totally agree with you. But hey what would we know anyway? After all to disapprove of porn means we must be uptight and possibly frigid ! And to think I was kidding myself that mysex life was pretty great...

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by solidsquid

Again you have missed what I wrote, you should read it and comprehend. You also continually make the assertion of pornography being the reason for human trafficking, operations by organized crime and so forth yet you fail to provide any evidence past your own anecdotes. I believe this has more to do with your perceptions of something you dislike causing you to amplify possible correlations which are far from the mean. I find it sad that you pity so those who can enjoy watching porn - the manner you present it is very trite and contemptuous. Porn in this country is not some widely underground business where movies are made in someone's basement with kidnapped girls from the suburbs like you envision it. These people are often very well paid, well taken care of and are not coerced into this line of work - they choose to be there. Watching too many Lifetime movies can make for an incorrect assessment.

This is the U.S., not Cambodia.

I am so glad you have found a way of making sure that internet porn for example does not come from some grotty basement with exploited or trafficked women. Good on you for managing something even the best computer buffs can't .

As for for some evidence :
Organized Crime and Pornography
Article | The Reality of Human Trafficking
Trafficking and pornography: the links
I'm afraid I have not kept the Amnesty international report and other reports and facts so I guess it will go down to me just making it all up in my silly little prudish head. As I said before if porn was a regulated industry I would not have much of a problem with it . As long as nobody gets hurt just for some chaps little jollies, I really do not care what people do in the comfort of their own home.

As for being conditioned, I am not quite sure how. I am an atheist and pretty liberal, have no hang ups and I love sex and have a great and fulfilling sex life. I am not quite sure what a lifetime movie is but I am pretty sure I have never seen one. Once again you presume a lot about me. I do not read tabloids but reliable news sources, and keep myself informed of current issues with excellent magazines not trash, and participate in many campaigns if I think the cause is just. I do have a sense of morality which says "if it hurts, demeans or exploits people , it's bad and undesirable" . Simplistic perhaps, but generally I find it is quite a good way to lead your life. If that makes me some kind of anally retentive person, then so be it.

[solidsquid]

First, I never said I could control the internet, you did not understand what I said, again.

The organized crime connections seem to be supported by mostly anecdotal evidence where systematic investigation has had inconclusive results in the U.S. The also would beg the question if it is simply organized crime and criminal involvement that makes porn reprehensible then pursuits such as gambling, major motion pictures, shopping at Wal-Mart, buying certain products, tobacco, alcohol and the like should be done away with in your stance as well. It is akin to the wild accusations of neo-cons talking about supporting terrorism by buying a product which may have some ties somewhere to a company or country which is friendly to those who support such actions.

The other links go on about the global human trafficking with which the reliable sources cited make pretty much no mention of the United States adult film industry and human trafficking - which, if you had read what I posted is what I'm talking about. You seem to have it in your head that I deny this happens anywhere or at all - that's not what I said.

This goes into a broader scope in that we also play a part in contributing to the reprehensible aspects of any industry by placing moral, legal and other stigma upon it culturally. But that is another discussion much like the porn attributing to sex addiction and deviance tripe.

You don't like porn because you think it has nothing but forced sex slaves - come down to Texas, I'll introduce you to some of my happy, well-adjusted friends who just happen to be adult entertainers - none were forced, none were molested as children (most actually grew up in pseudo-Christian household which most would view as "morally upstanding") and they do the work because they want to.

Understand my stance: Not all porn is controlled by the mob or is the product of human slavery - much is done in good taste, with willing and well paid actors/actresses and is not in support of some crime network. Take it how you want.

I'm done with this topic.