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Old 09-09-2009, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,991,176 times
Reputation: 527

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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
WE are not the richest country on the planet, the Arab Emphraites are, and their universal public health care program is a work in progress....but, I'm with you with the French...always have had it together since the revolution...but we helped save them a time or too when they were in a weaker state. Thing about the French..they (or countries) like them can only exist when stronger countries prevail and protect them..

If we become like the French, who will protect us? Fidel? Hugo? Nancy? Hairy? Obama..? the answer of course is...the Mexicans. Si Habla?

I would like the Public Option to live my life, die privately, with dignity when the time comes and have my family bury me...as far away from a hospital and Doctors as possible...Will I get that Option? I doubt it.
Having actually lived in the UAE (Abu Dhabi), I can speak to their health care system. It is a great system, if you can pay. If you are not an Emirati (70+ % of residents are not) you must pay for your treatment. If you do not pay, you do not leave the country, they take your passport. You are not given food/shelter/clothing. There was a story in the paper while I was there about a German business man- he had a heart attack on his way to the airport. He was treated at the hospital. He was also tagged with the bill. He was thrown out of the hospital when he was deemed fit. They didn't care where he lived (he ended up homeless, as he couldn't afford the hotel). He lived like that for several months, until his story was reported in the paper. A wealthy German Ex Pat saw his story and paid his bill to get him home.

That is health care in the wealthiest country on Earth. They actually expect the consumer of a service to pay for his consumption. How novel.

Here, we expect the dwindling "earners" to foot the bill for the consumers. Illegal or not. More "entitlement" to "free" healthcare will break the system. It cannot be sustained. We are so far in debt, we cannot recover, yet we feel the need to go even deeper to justify paying for this monstrosity?

Keep your heads in the sand.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
638 posts, read 927,990 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Having actually lived in the UAE (Abu Dhabi), I can speak to their health care system. It is a great system, if you can pay. If you are not an Emirati (70+ % of residents are not) you must pay for your treatment. If you do not pay, you do not leave the country, they take your passport. You are not given food/shelter/clothing. There was a story in the paper while I was there about a German business man- he had a heart attack on his way to the airport. He was treated at the hospital. He was also tagged with the bill. He was thrown out of the hospital when he was deemed fit. They didn't care where he lived (he ended up homeless, as he couldn't afford the hotel). He lived like that for several months, until his story was reported in the paper. A wealthy German Ex Pat saw his story and paid his bill to get him home.

That is health care in the wealthiest country on Earth. They actually expect the consumer of a service to pay for his consumption. How novel.

Here, we expect the dwindling "earners" to foot the bill for the consumers. Illegal or not. More "entitlement" to "free" healthcare will break the system. It cannot be sustained. We are so far in debt, we cannot recover, yet we feel the need to go even deeper to justify paying for this monstrosity?
Keep your heads in the sand.
Brilliant! It’s always easier to drum up the worse case scare scenario to snap dissenters into agreement with you. LOL I always find it funny that people when attempting to vilify socialized medicine utilize only the negative and flawed examples. I constantly hear about Canada, Britain, and France (the broken record of three). There are excellent examples out there however. Countries that most never think of that are current economic power houses such as Taiwan, Singapore, and Japan sport systems that are well organized, and provide the same amount of care that we get at half the costs.

Oh no oh my not socialized health care, we’ll be the next Canooks. LOL How ridiculous! If countries like Japan and Taiwan (two of the wealthiest and most expensive countries in the world) can implement affordable health care, then we should definitely be able to do so. It’s not all bad. We need to take honest stock of the potential systems that are implemented globally, combine positive attributes of each system into one both palatable and workable in America and implement.

To conclude, it’s a bit disingenuous of you to utilize the UAE as an example of badly implemented socialized medicine. Most educated persons know that the bias and relative hostility displayed towards foreigners extends through all levels and touches on every aspect of their society. Most amenities enjoyed by the native population are not available to foreigners. Consequently to imply that the treatment of foreigners in their health system in any way has any potential affect on a system that we may enact is null. Does their policy of restricting property ownership in Umm al- Quwain or Sharjah affect real-estate in America? A ridiculous postulation or truth? I side with the former.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: un peu près de Chicago
773 posts, read 2,624,680 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Having actually lived in the UAE (Abu Dhabi), I can speak to their health care system. It is a great system, if you can pay. If you are not an Emirati (70+ % of residents are not) you must pay for your treatment. If you do not pay, you do not leave the country, they take your passport. You are not given food/shelter/clothing. There was a story in the paper while I was there about a German business man- he had a heart attack on his way to the airport. He was treated at the hospital. He was also tagged with the bill. He was thrown out of the hospital when he was deemed fit. They didn't care where he lived (he ended up homeless, as he couldn't afford the hotel). He lived like that for several months, until his story was reported in the paper. A wealthy German Ex Pat saw his story and paid his bill to get him home. That is health care in the wealthiest country on Earth. They actually expect the consumer of a service to pay for his consumption. How novel.
What does heath care in Abu Dhabi have to do with anything here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Here, we expect the dwindling "earners" to foot the bill for the consumers. Illegal or not.
More BS. It does not include illegals, and you know it. So your motto is what? “I’ve got mine, so _crew you?”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
More "entitlement" to "free" healthcare will break the system. It cannot be sustained. We are so far in debt, we cannot recover, yet we feel the need to go even deeper to justify paying for this monstrosity?
It is sustained in every industrialized country in the world. How do you expect U.S. businesses to pay for employee health care and compete with European and Japanese companies? Employee health benefits were a major factor in bringing down GM and Chrysler.

———————————————
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kennedy View Post
WE are not the richest country on the planet, the Arab Emphraites are.
Arab Emphraites? You can be really funny, David. Whenever I feel the need for a chuckle, I read your posts.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Jefferson County
380 posts, read 1,156,880 times
Reputation: 104
To claim a natural right to a service one must first deny the natural right of the service provider to not provide said service (or by extension the rights of those that are forced by the power of the sword to pay for the service.)
One could make what appears to be a valid argument for the right to a government/public option to automobile repair using the same fallacious scheme. Those who purpose to claim these 'rights' have no idea of what rights are. It is a plan to control the flow of money and power.
As DCJOE contends it is disingenuous to be at all concerned with anecdotal evidence of health care failures in other countries. The US of A was set up to be fundamentally different than other countries and we should strive to maintain those differences where they remain and regain them where they have been lost.

Clint
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,991,176 times
Reputation: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
What does heath care in Abu Dhabi have to do with anything here?
DK mentioned Arab countries being the most wealthy, and I wanted to point out that the wealthiest country on the planet does not offer "free" health care- certainly not to non citizens. Simple enough to grasp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
More BS. It does not include illegals, and you know it. So your motto is what? “I’ve got mine, so _crew you?”
"Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don't have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group. Like others who can't afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can't turn people away, even if they can't pay. Emergency-room visits, where treatment costs are much higher than in clinics, jumped 32% nationally between 1996 and 2006, the latest data available." Yep, I'm sure once we have socialized medicine, they will not be allowed to steal our medical care- and that is what it is. Taking something that you didn't pay for.
My motto: I'll take care of my family, you take care of yours. Don't expect me to pay for your problems, I won't expect you to pay for mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
It is sustained in every industrialized country in the world. How do you expect U.S. businesses to pay for employee health care and compete with European and Japanese companies? Employee health benefits were a major factor in bringing down GM and Chrysler.
Businesses are not required to provide healthcare. Let the workers handle it themselves. Or have we, as a nation, become so ignorant that we're unable to fend for ourselves? Yes, big Government always has the answer.
Paying outlandish Union wages to otherwise minimum wage earners killed GM. Companies outside the US can actually pay labor at a market rate, not some bloated union scale.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,619 posts, read 22,496,269 times
Reputation: 24627
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
DK mentioned Arab countries being the most wealthy, and I wanted to point out that the wealthiest country on the planet does not offer "free" health care- certainly not to non citizens. Simple enough to grasp?
According to Wiki- they do offer free health care to their citizens

Healthcare in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Standards of health are considered to be generally high in the UAE, resulting from increased government spending during strong economic years. According to the UAE government, total expenditures on health care from 1996 to 2003 were US$436 million. According to the World Health Organization, in 2004 total expenditures on health care constituted 2.9 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), and the per capita expenditure for health care was US$497. Health care currently is free only for UAE citizens. The number of doctors per 100,000 (annual average, 1990–99) is 181.
Unless they recently changed.
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:36 AM
 
Location: un peu près de Chicago
773 posts, read 2,624,680 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
DK mentioned Arab countries being the most wealthy, and I wanted to point out that the wealthiest country on the planet does not offer "free" health care- certainly not to non citizens. Simple enough to grasp?
Emergency care due to accidents for foreign citizens is paid by the government in most European countries. Ever been to Europe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
"Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants ..."
Illegal immigrants are excluded from all proposed health reforms now in Congress. Don't propose a hypothetical "What could happen down the road ..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
My motto: I'll take care of my family, you take care of yours. Don't expect me to pay for your problems, I won't expect you to pay for mine
I know your motto: "I've got mine; _crew everybody else."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinton Bound View Post
Companies outside the US can actually pay labor at a market rate, not some bloated union scale.
You obviously know nothing about European unions. They are much stronger than unions in America. Universal health care is what allows foreign companies to compete so successfully with ours. Leave WV much?

———————————————

I am not going to respond anymore to this crap because it is like playing Whack-A-Mole with all the right-wing nut-jobs in WV. And WV has more than their share.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:11 AM
 
12,022 posts, read 11,522,798 times
Reputation: 11136
I read that half of the West Virginia population is already covered under a government-backed health insurance program, which would be either Medicare, Medicaid, WVCHIP for children, or government-sponsored plans for federal, state, & county government employees and retirees.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,991,176 times
Reputation: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zea mays View Post
I am not going to respond anymore to this crap because it is like playing Whack-A-Mole with all the right-wing nut-jobs in WV. And WV has more than their share.
Great idea. You and nodrama should get together, he's a willing audience.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Puerto Penasco, Mexico
967 posts, read 2,991,176 times
Reputation: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
According to Wiki- they do offer free health care to their citizens.
Correct. That's why I made this statement in my post: "If you are not an Emirati (70+ % of residents are not) you must pay for your treatment"
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