Medicare Card Burning Day (death, economy, income, voted)

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

To those of you who oppose government run health care, when are you going to hold your Medicare card burning day? Kinda like a tea party to show your opposition to socialized medicine. How come I don't see this happening anywhere? If government run health care is so bad, how come you are clinging to your socialist-issued Medicare cards? I'd love to see GOP politicians of Medicare age (Grassley et al) lead the card burning orgy.

Next, when are you going to burn your Social Security checks?

Taxes for Medicare and social security are taken out of employee's paychecks regardless of whether they are liberals or conservatives. Conservatives have the same rights to receive the benefits that were paid for with the taxes that were withheld from their paychecks.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by newtoli

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Those elderly people should be able to save enough money for their OWN health care and retirement, rather than expecting OTHERS to pay for it through their tax dollars!

So the conservative elderly should just stop using the services even though they have had SS and medicare taxes withheld from their paychecks during their entire working careers? Should only liberals be allowed to use the services even though EVERY employee had those taxes withheld from their paychecks?

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by newtoli

My tax dollars pay for other peoples Social Security and Medicare right now, and it might not even be there for me when I'm old enough to collect.

Yet, the proponents of government-run healthcare think that the government would always be funded even though our inept government can't even keep SS and medicare properly funded. People are just so naive!

[shorebaby]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Excuse me, but it is my tax money that was wasted to pay "people like this" to attack a country lookng for non-existent WMDs.

Troll

[shorebaby]

Originally Posted by Boompa

I'm not a """Lefty""" but NO. If you haven't been paying attention it is the """Righties """who are suing to end Social Security and Medicare and the Republican """Tenthers""" who are challenging it in Congress. It will become voluntary, everyone paying in will want out and it will collapse. Tens of millions of elerly will lose their Medical Insurance, their homes and be on welfare. What a glorious day for Dick Armey and FreedomWorks"". But feel free to jump in whenever you feel the urge

So the only way to have people participate in this glorious program is by force? If nobody wants to be in it why have it?

[shorebaby]

Originally Posted by Boompa

Then you are predicting that Freedomworks will lose it's lawsuit?

Mmmmmm no. You assume congress would need to continue confiscating people's money to continue paying for the program. If the participation beacame voluntary tomorrow the existing funds could be used to fund the phase out I suggested without any worry about the out yeats. Too complicated for you?

[GregW]

Social Security was created as an economic insurance system to provide income for the seniors that did save all their lives and have their savings lost in a banking collapse. It was not meant as a long term government savings system.

The system was designed as a pay-as-you-go system where current taxes paid for current expenses. The Republicans starting with Raygun abused the system by creating a “Trust Fund” that was used to supply money to the military build up while allowing income taxes cuts on the wealthiest. The result was the social security tax added a very regressive component to Federal tax system. This abuse is still in operation.

I think this should be reformed by returning to a pay as you go system funded by a flat rate income tax on all income from all sources. It does not matter to me if the wealthy taxpayers under this system have to pay for something that is or will be effectively worthless to them. After all $1,000 per month is chicken feed to a person with $100,000 per month interest income.

We can restore social security to a Federal Retirement Insurance system. We just need the will and common sense to do so.

[dorock99]

Originally Posted by ndfmnlf

Wrong. You are assuming that everyone gets sick to the same degree and gets the same Medicare benefits. The fact is, some people get more sick than others and consume more resources than they paid into Medicare.



Not if you are healthy. Then, you don't get any benefit from the program. Do you really think you will get back everything you paid in taxes and premiums dollar for dollar? You either overconsume or underconsume resources. The great majority overconsume. But see, your argument exposes the bankruptcy of your position. You are aguing from the point of view of a socialist who benefits from socialized medicine in the form of Medicare but who, at the same breath, argues against UHC for being....ummm.....socialistic. Don't you see the inconsistency of your position?




Yes it does. It takes away from young workers who may never live long enough to benefit from Medicare. You are in denial, my friend. Medicare is stealing from Peter to give to Paul. It is socialism. It is no different from UHC.




One day you will be the "someone else" who benefits from UHC. I assume you don't have $100K laying around to pay full market price for a coronary bypass. If you do, then why not pay market price as a good conservative is supposed to do? You believe in markets, right? Then, give up your Medicare card now. Stop mooching off of young workers.

ndfmnlf THANK YOU FOR ALSO EXPOSING ALL OF THE HYPOCRISY. NONE OF THESE HYPOCRITES WOULD BATTLE ME, SO INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING THE ACTUAL ISSUES, THEY MAKE IRRELEVANT PERSONAL ATTACKS, SO EVENTUALLY, THEY"LL STOP DEBATING WITH YOU ON THE SUBJECT, AND THEY"LL RESORT TO PERSONALLY ATTACKING YOU.

I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU A BUNCH MORE REP POINTS!!!


The hypocrisy is comical to watch, but also pisses me off to an extent. The way people make up logic to support their ideals is a truly amazing thing to watch. Check out my libertarian for small government thread Libertarians and the Public Option (Small Gov guy for it). The hypocrisy of some libertarians is amazing as well. People really need to take a step back focus on what we currently have and the largest wealth re-distribution that currently takes place between younger and older individuals. THIS IS THE PROBLEM! Any 30 minute read through the CBO will reveal this is the main source of the problem. This is the reason government will continually expand into the future until these programs are removed. In my form i was actually being nice and basically saying I'd be willing to support older individuals if you allowed me to have at the very minimum as a young worker the option (choice) of also participating in the health plan (since I'll pay into regardless of whether i use it or don't), but f%ck it now. I'm almost to the point, i really don't care what happens to the elderly, since they don't want to play fair, I've had it with their extremely high level of hypocrisy. Many currently mindless young workers in the not so distance future will too. The day of reckoning is coming and younger workers will lead the way back to smaller government. If you cannot see what is going to happen once they start to thirst for knowledge and truth behind wealth redistribution and government spending then you're nuts. The elderly are going to pay an awful toll for their behavior in 2009 unless something is done, that offers both groups the same benefit. (They are going to find out that only the richest of the rich older people will have the coverage if we allow the free-market to decide their fate.)


I DARE ANYONE ON THIS BOARD OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE TO TRY TO GET A PRIVATE LIFE INSURANCE POLICY. YOU DIRECTLY PAY FOR IT, THERE IS NO MIDDLEMAN (GOVERNMENT OR COMPANY) INVOLVED. PLEASE TELL ME HOW THE PRIVATE SECTOR DEALS WITH YOUR OLD A&&. LET ME KNOW THE PREMIUM THEY CHARGE YOU ON A 10 or 20 YEAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF YOU DIRECTLY DEALT WITH MEDICAL INSURANCE COMPANIES THE OUTCOME WOULD BE EXTREMELY SIMILAR AND YOU WOULDN'T"T HAVE ANY COVERAGE. EXCEPT FOR THE LIBERAL WARREN BUFFETS AND SUPER WEALTHY CONSERVATIVES YOUR AGE.

[dorock99]

Originally Posted by shorebaby

Mmmmmm no. You assume congress would need to continue confiscating people's money to continue paying for the program. If the participation beacame voluntary tomorrow the existing funds could be used to fund the phase out I suggested without any worry about the out yeats. Too complicated for you?

Shorebaby, so you're suggesting instead of return money to everyone (which we all no isn't possible) just leave the money in the system that is already there to fund the current retirees.

Basically if you're 40 and you've worked since you were 16 under this program you're screwed and have to part with all the money you put in over those years (maybe 40-50k)? No matter what you suggest there will be a loser.

Even if you make the argument the 40 yr old guy is in his peak earnings years and he still has 30 (potential) years of employment to make back the interest he lost on 40-50k to social security. It's a trade-off and the reality is someone has to lose when you destroy a ponzi scheme. I'm all for getting rid of SS, but to do so, someone is going to pay a hefty consequence and it is most likely those individuals in their 35-45 age range. (Benefits younger workers 16 years to 25 years and it benefits the current elderly 55 and over)

[ndfmnlf]

Originally Posted by dorock99

ndfmnlf THANK YOU FOR ALSO EXPOSING ALL OF THE HYPOCRISY. NONE OF THESE HYPOCRITES WOULD BATTLE ME, SO INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING THE ACTUAL ISSUES, THEY MAKE IRRELEVANT PERSONAL ATTACKS, SO EVENTUALLY, THEY"LL STOP DEBATING WITH YOU ON THE SUBJECT, AND THEY"LL RESORT TO PERSONALLY ATTACKING YOU.

I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU A BUNCH MORE REP POINTS!!!


The hypocrisy is comical to watch, but also pisses me off to an extent. The way people make up logic to support their ideals is a truly amazing thing to watch. Check out my libertarian for small government thread Libertarians and the Public Option (Small Gov guy for it). The hypocrisy of some libertarians is amazing as well. People really need to take a step back focus on what we currently have and the largest wealth re-distribution that currently takes place between younger and older individuals. THIS IS THE PROBLEM! Any 30 minute read through the CBO will reveal this is the main source of the problem. This is the reason government will continually expand into the future until these programs are removed. In my form i was actually being nice and basically saying I'd be willing to support older individuals if you allowed me to have at the very minimum as a young worker the option (choice) of also participating in the health plan (since I'll pay into regardless of whether i use it or don't), but f%ck it now. I'm almost to the point, i really don't care what happens to the elderly, since they don't want to play fair, I've had it with their extremely high level of hypocrisy. Many currently mindless young workers in the not so distance future will too. The day of reckoning is coming and younger workers will lead the way back to smaller government. If you cannot see what is going to happen once they start to thirst for knowledge and truth behind wealth redistribution and government spending then you're nuts. The elderly are going to pay an awful toll for their behavior in 2009 unless something is done, that offers both groups the same benefit. (They are going to find out that only the richest of the rich older people will have the coverage if we allow the free-market to decide their fate.)


I DARE ANYONE ON THIS BOARD OVER 50 YEARS OF AGE TO TRY TO GET A PRIVATE LIFE INSURANCE POLICY. YOU DIRECTLY PAY FOR IT, THERE IS NO MIDDLEMAN (GOVERNMENT OR COMPANY) INVOLVED. PLEASE TELL ME HOW THE PRIVATE SECTOR DEALS WITH YOUR OLD A&&. LET ME KNOW THE PREMIUM THEY CHARGE YOU ON A 10 or 20 YEAR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY.

IF YOU DIRECTLY DEALT WITH MEDICAL INSURANCE COMPANIES THE OUTCOME WOULD BE EXTREMELY SIMILAR AND YOU WOULDN'T"T HAVE ANY COVERAGE. EXCEPT FOR THE LIBERAL WARREN BUFFETS AND SUPER WEALTHY CONSERVATIVES YOUR AGE.

dorock99,

Yes I was following your thread re libertarians and the public option. You presented a very well reasoned and intelligent position on how libertarians can logically support the public option.

It is fun to watch so called conservatives/anti-socialists perform mental somersaults to justify a patently socialistic program like Medicare. They simply cannot get themselves to part with their Medicare cards because they are just plain addicted. But they want to deprive everyone else (younger workers) of the benefits they now enjoy.