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Old 09-11-2009, 12:27 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,507,575 times
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Since the past 3 years its been really, really hot in O.C and on the coastline in the summer season. In the past 20 years living in these regions I never recall it being that hot. SoCal always had great weather, always perfect and slightly cooler and refreshing in winters. Now, its almost unpleasant to stay out in July/August.

When I used to visit the Scandinavian countries they used to have a few meters deep snow every winter all across the country for months. They have no snow at all since the past 8 or so years from mid to south of the countries except superficial hail. And more often and common nowadays and what they did not see in the past, is that if winters get a sudden heat spell, flowers and trees will kick-start spring too early. Then there will be a sudden cold spell, and these blooms are frozen and ruined. They also have over 70% (if I recall) loss of butterflies and many other insects - and don't know the exact cause for this. Birds are shown starving too due to weather fluctuations.

Doesn't matter what anyone says about theories and conspiracies, or governments and organizations using it as a tool to get funding or earn a buck. No one can invent the changes we can see and feel around us.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:31 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,999,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
actually that depends on what part of Texas you are in. Dallas has been about normal. with very few 100 degree days.

Austin however has been blazing hot.
Didn't you read the other posts? Climate change means it could get cooler closer to the poles and hotter further south. Dallas is closer to the north pole than Austin, so obviously Austin is going to be hotter...
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:36 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,999,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Since the past 3 years its been really, really hot in O.C and on the coastline in the summer season. In the past 20 years living in these regions I never recall it being that hot. SoCal always had great weather, always perfect and slightly cooler and refreshing in winters. Now, its almost unpleasant to stay out in July/August.

When I used to visit the Scandinavian countries they used to have a few meters deep snow every winter all across the country for months. They have no snow at all since the past 8 or so years from mid to south of the countries except superficial hail. And more often and common nowadays and what they did not see in the past, is that if winters get a sudden heat spell, flowers and trees will kick-start spring too early. Then there will be a sudden cold spell, and these blooms are frozen and ruined. They also have over 70% (if I recall) loss of butterflies and many other insects - and don't know the exact cause for this. Birds are shown starving too due to weather fluctuations.

Doesn't matter what anyone says about theories and conspiracies, or governments and organizations using it as a tool to get funding or earn a buck. No one can invent the changes we can see and feel around us.
There is no doubt the climate is changing, it always has and always will. I am sure anyone alive as the little ice age began to set in noticed DRAMATIC changes.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:59 PM
 
18,880 posts, read 10,732,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Didn't you read the other posts? Climate change means it could get cooler closer to the poles and hotter further south. Dallas is closer to the north pole than Austin, so obviously Austin is going to be hotter...


LOL! GREAT POINT! haahaaa!
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:03 PM
 
18,880 posts, read 10,732,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Since the past 3 years its been really, really hot in O.C and on the coastline in the summer season. In the past 20 years living in these regions I never recall it being that hot. SoCal always had great weather, always perfect and slightly cooler and refreshing in winters. Now, its almost unpleasant to stay out in July/August.

When I used to visit the Scandinavian countries they used to have a few meters deep snow every winter all across the country for months. They have no snow at all since the past 8 or so years from mid to south of the countries except superficial hail. And more often and common nowadays and what they did not see in the past, is that if winters get a sudden heat spell, flowers and trees will kick-start spring too early. Then there will be a sudden cold spell, and these blooms are frozen and ruined. They also have over 70% (if I recall) loss of butterflies and many other insects - and don't know the exact cause for this. Birds are shown starving too due to weather fluctuations.

Doesn't matter what anyone says about theories and conspiracies, or governments and organizations using it as a tool to get funding or earn a buck. No one can invent the changes we can see and feel around us.
I dont think anyone has suggested that climate has not changed.

the question is what is causing that change?


1000 years ago the Vikings were growing wheat in Ice Land. a couple hundred years later, it was too cold to do that and they starved to death.

I suspect they liked the global warming that helped them and feared the global cooling that killed them....

but we know for sure that both the warming and cooling back then was not man made.

If warming and cooling occured that was so drastic then without man being the culprit, why do we now thing that man is the culprit when the heating has not reached the levels it did back then?
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
11,098 posts, read 7,795,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - NOAA: Summer Temperature Below Average for U.S.



But, we're supposed to be warming, right?

Oh! I forgot - whether we warm or freeze, it's all part of climate change. Before, the phrase Global-Warming just didn't pass the giggle test, especially with snow in July.

Now, we can encompass all extremes of temperature under one big umbrella. That makes it easier for the alarmists so they don't have to answer questions of why their prophesies are not coming to fruition.

Credit where credit is due, Sanrene. We usually disagree where economics are concerned, but on this topic you're spot on. Global warming is a sham and a scam and the silliness of the "climate change" alarmists will continue to be entertaining until Hell freezes over.

I'm just seeing this thread for the first time and notice that there are already 5 pages. I haven't read them yet, but don't need to in order to know what I'll find. The same progressive ideologues who spend their time screaming and waving signs on the streets in support of gay marriage will flip their signs to the global warming side and continue their perpetual attack on common sense from that angle at the same volume.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:31 PM
 
18,880 posts, read 10,732,584 times
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I read earlier this week that a number of scientists are suggesting a major cooling over the next 20 years as the North Atlantic Oscillation is moving into a cooling period, in addition to a major decrease in sun spot activity.

So what do we do now? wrap up and pretend its hot?
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:35 PM
 
18,880 posts, read 10,732,584 times
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Questions for the Anthropogenic Global Warming crowd:

1. Why could they grow Wheat in Iceland 1000 years ago but cannot now?
2. Why were they growing grapes and making great wine in England 1000 years ago but cannot now?
3. Why is 350 parts per million of CO2 causing AGW now when 750 million years ago CO2 made up 60,000 parts per million of the atmosphere and the earth was a ball of ice?
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
18 posts, read 23,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
Since the past 3 years its been really, really hot in O.C and on the coastline in the summer season.
In the past three years, NOAA says it's been getting cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antibes View Post
When I used to visit the Scandinavian countries they used to have a few meters deep snow every winter all across the country for months. They have no snow at all since the past 8 or so years from mid to south of the countries [...]
Doesn't matter what anyone says about theories and conspiracies, or governments and organizations using it as a tool to get funding or earn a buck. No one can invent the changes we can see and feel around us.
Yes, they used to say that about how mice spontaneously generated in piles of dirty clothing, and warts were caused by handling toads, and how heat was a liquid, and lots of other anti-scientific observations.

In fact, your arguments are much akin to those of a homeopathic medicine advocate.

Actual scientists, on the other hand, know that "the changes we feel around us" are very often wrong.

In this case, no specific example of "warm weather" has anything to with global warming, at all. Any real scientist can tell you that.

Why?

Because the global mean temperature is only four tenths of ONE degree above its average for the past century.

You're talking about local temperatures considerably more than four tenths of one degree higher.

To simplify enough for the kind of people who know that the earth is flat, because they can see it all around them:

Quote:
The actual mean for the year is only 0.4º above average.

That means that if it's 5º above average where you are, it's 4.6º BELOW average, somewhere else.
Or, more realistically, ALL of the temperatures for the year and the planet work out to only being 0.4º high, so any unusual warmth is averaged out by a nearly-equal amount of unusual coolness.

Every time someone points out, for example, that we've had two unusually cool summers in the US, and an unusually cold winter in between, the climate pseudoscientists suddenly remember this fact, and say "local weather is not global climate"...but when some dingbat says "it's been really hot here, so global warming must be real", suddenly they're quiet.

When someone points out that the arctic ice sheet has expanded to record levels for the past few winters, more than EVER observed before, the global warming profiteer declares "that's just local weather, not global climate", but then he turns around and says "this melting glacier is proof there's global warming! Give me more money!!!"

These Janus-faced government equivalents of tobacco scientists are correct, in those rare instances where they suddenly recall that local weather has NOTHING to do with the global mean temperature.

Everyone here should read the Climate Change Timeline...

Climate Change Timeline – 1895-2009 « But Now You Know
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:19 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 7,436,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazvorpal View Post
Speaking as a former consultant for both NASA and NOAA, this is a perfect example of how they twist data in order to literally scare up more money for their budgets.

In fact, NOAA's own reporting of the global mean temperature has FALLEN for three years in a row (we're in the middle of the fourth year of cooling, right now), but they don't report that in their summary, depending on you to be too lazy to check the details.

Instead, they report only where we are versus the 100 year mean.

Here is their actual data:

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/annual.land_ocean.90S.90N.df_1901-2000mean.dat (broken link)

That is the global mean for each year, showing how far it is from the average of the past century. The bigger the positive number, the warmer.

I'll post the years since 1998:

1998 0.5969
1999 0.4198
2000 0.3885
2001 0.5188
2002 0.5738
2003 0.5811
2004 0.5409
2005 0.6128
2006 0.5599
2007 0.5459
2008 0.4793

As you can see, the global mean PEAKED in 2005, by NOAA's guesstimate. It then declines in 2006, 2007, and 2008. The positive number is getting smaller, because it's COOLING. But it has not yet fallen below the entire arc of its peak.

Despite the GROWING rate of cooling, therefore, they can get away with ONLY saying "it's still one of the top ten warmest".

If they didn't have so much invested in scaring people over "warming", they'd be predicting an ice age right now, the way climate profit-seekers did so many other times in the past 114 years.

They generally use static analysis to project any minor, short-term trends out far beyond reason, as if they were going to continue that way until disaster...but this time they don't dare, as we'd laugh them off the planet they're so hell-bent on exploiting.

Oh, additional note:

The above trends are in thousandths of one degree from the average for the past century. So the peak, in 2005, barely more than half of ONE DEGREE away from what is normal for the whole century.

If, instead of zooming the chart in to less than one degree, making the change look huge, you zoom it out to a normal temperature range, it looks like the attached pic. There is barely any change, at all. They are cultivating panick over something which is, quite literally, statistically insignificant.

Considering their method for guessing at the global mean (and if you nail one down he'll tell you it's a guess), this variation is not even outside of the margin of error.

Understand that, if you work at NASA or NOAA, the bureaucrats there will boldly tell you, to your face (because they assume you're also looking out solely for yourself) that the whole point is to spin the data to increase their budget.

I picked up the phrase Fear Equals Funding from them.

When I asked why they were reporting only the dangers of El Nino, not that it actually tends to reduce weather-related deaths in the US, I was told "you can't justify your budget by giving GOOD news...fear equals funding".

When a friend of mine had a major weather project whose results literally contradicted global warming, he explained that he had to massage the data to make it support global warming, instead, because otherwise he'd never be allowed to pass peer review, and therefore would lose funding, ergo his job.

Understand that: He was forced to intentionally use bad methodology, in order to pass the censorship of peer review, which is supposedly in place to ensure good methodology...but which actually serves as a means of imposing agendas and protecting conventional wisdom.
I simply cannot believe that one who says he/she was a consultant for ANY scientific org would post something that is so inane.

The trendline is unmistakable; hence scientific consensus on the reality of the process and that it's cause is Human release of so-called "Greenhouse Gasses".

As to your allegation that anyone in the government who questioned Global Warming was targeted; the inverse was true for the past 8 years, which is why anything coming out of NASA had to be censored by Bush cronies prior to release.

Again, you are simply not credible on this subject based on this post.
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