Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
She is not interviewing anyone, she is just wanting to give her opinion instead of finding out what the protestors wanted to say. The man was there with his little boy and he was seen as stupid when he wasn't even allowed to talk. Yes, you are dumb---don't tell me what you think.
I told a liberal friend 7 years ago - "we can't stick our head in the sand" when it comes to Saddam.
I know a lot more now than I did then.
What was so wrong about it?
How about finishing the job against the guys who attacked us?
What was right about the Iraq war?
You did not say right or wrong you said if it was true or based on a lie. That is two very different things. I disagreed with the war also. It does not change the fact that people have the right to protest what they feel is wrong as they did with the war. These people believe that Obama is leading our country in the wrong direction as far as health care, taxes and big government. So why is what they feel is wrong but the war protesters were right? Both are valid points and both are very important issues.
Quote:
We know about many of the lies that these people believe.
How does that justify their fear of healthcare?
Its based on lies (death panels, etc).
No that is NOT all that people are protesting. They are protesting the spending, taxes, health care and big government. They are protesting because they do not want the government involved in their health care.
What you feel is true about Obama's health care plan may not be what I feel its true. From what I personally have read (the actual bill) it does sound to me like the government will be in control of every health insurance company and employer under the HIE. I don't like that. I don;t want the government to set that they think are the standards I want for my health care. There are many other issue I personally have with the bill. Now why are my concerns any less legitimate then those protesting the war?
Quote:
Taxes?
Who's taxes have gone up? Most employed people's taxes went down.
Are they all heavy smokers?
My taxes have not gone down and you have no idea who's taxes will go up. Not even Obama knows that. At some point we ALL will pay for this in one way or another.
Quote:
"control that the government wants to have in their lives."
I don't know what this refers to.
Sounds like a glen beck fantasy.
Not a fantasy. People do not want the government to have any say in their health care choices. They want Washington to slow down and explain the bill and explain how we are going to pay for it. I would like an explainion on how if there is this cheap government option what will prevent every employer from just not providing health insurance to their employees? Obama said this would not happen but did not explain why it would not.
Quote:
Or do you mean putting money into GM so it wouldn't completely collapse?
No, can't be that. Bush did that in December. And I applaud that.
Well I disagreed with it. I disagree with bailing out any company that has run their business into the ground.
Quote:
It must be about Obama telling kids to study.
Parents hate that.
Not one is a valid concern.
Well to YOU they are not "valid" concerns but to many they are. You think they have no reason to protest and that is fine that is your opinion but there are many that think they have lots of reasons.
It comes down to the fact that YOU do not decide what is a valid issue. I have listed some for you here I hope you can attempt to see why they are very valid issues.
She is not interviewing anyone, she is just wanting to give her opinion instead of finding out what the protestors wanted to say. The man was there with his little boy and he was seen as stupid when he wasn't even allowed to talk. Yes, you are dumb---don't tell me what you think.
You defend the guy she interviewed?
Then tell me what taxes have gone up.
If a protest is based on Lies, its simply not valid.
Regardless of what the protest is about.
I have not said otherwise and it'd be really nice if people stopped reading whatever they wanted to read - unless you just like arguing.
Again it is YOUR opinion that it is based on lies. Your OPINION does not count as fact.
We know about many of the lies that these people believe.
How does that justify their fear of healthcare?
Its based on lies (death panels, etc).
It's not based on lies. The whole thing about "death panels" was speculation about what was possible under the "Obama health plan." What people don't want is the federal government running health care. This is what Obama is currently promoting. This is fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
Taxes?
Who's taxes have gone up? Most employed people's taxes went down.
Have you already filed your 2009 tax return? How can you say anyone's taxes went down when they haven't even been filed for this year yet. Obama has claimed to cut taxes for the middle class, but his proposals demonstrate otherwise. He has been a proponent of reducing the exemption for charitable giving. He has promoted "cap and trade" (aka cap and tax). He has promoted mandatory nationalized health care for all. He has continued to promote expensive stimulus plans. Each of these will result in a tax increase for most Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
Are they all heavy smokers?
What does this have to do with higher taxes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
"control that the government wants to have in their lives." I don't know what this refers to.
Sounds like a glen beck fantasy.
"Shirley, you can't be serious!" Every proposal that Obama has promoted since he has been in office has greatly expanded the power of the federal government, at the expense of the freedom and liberty of American citizens. I would hardly call it a Glen Beck fantasy... probably more like a nightmare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
Or do you mean putting money into GM so it wouldn't completely collapse?
No, can't be that. Bush did that in December. And I applaud that.
A government takeover of corporate America is not a good idea. If the company can't manage on its own, there's no reason the government needs to take it over. It then becomes a burden on everyone that supports the government through our tax dollars, instead of being a burden on the shareholders and management that got them into the mess in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
You mean Obama telling people that they should wash their hands?
It is the job of the parents to teach their children, so by the time the reach adulthood, it will be a well established habit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
It must be about Obama telling kids to study. Parents hate that.
Again, this is the job of the parents. This is a minor thing, but why does Obama seem to think that he has to be like a parent to every child in America? He doesn't need to do that, and I think that's what many parents are objecting to.
The trend from this administration is that they seem to be telling America, "You can't take care of yourself, so we need to step in and take care of you. All you have to do in return is pledge your allegiance to the government. If everyone does his part for 'the greater good' by paying his share of the burden, we can all live equally."
Quote:
Originally Posted by compJockey
Not one is a valid concern.
All of them are valid concerns for those that want to protect this republic for future generations. Selling out the "individual" for the "greater good" has never worked out for those who value freedom and liberty, both of which are cornerstones of our republic, and are valued by patriotic Americans all across this land.
You defend the guy she interviewed?
Then tell me what taxes have gone up.
Before he was so rudely cut off, the man was saying that his two-year-old son was already in debt. That is because of the reckless spending on the part of the federal government (not just in this administration, but others in the past as well). I believe the man's point was that his son would have to bear the burden of paying down the debt that is being increased by this administration (and has been increased by others).
You keep saying that taxes have gone down, and you ask for examples of the taxes that have gone up. Until we see our tax returns some time next year, we won't really know how things have changed this year, if at all. The only thing we have to go by is what we hear from those responsible. I have heard Obama say that he would like to reduce the deductions for charitable contributions. That alone amounts to a tax increase for me, if his proposal is carried through.
You did not say right or wrong you said if it was true or based on a lie. That is two very different things. I disagreed with the war also. It does not change the fact that people have the right to protest what they feel is wrong as they did with the war. These people believe that Obama is leading our country in the wrong direction as far as health care, taxes and big government. So why is what they feel is wrong but the war protesters were right? Both are valid points and both are very important issues.
Big government is a fine complaint. Except that our best economists are probably a better source of information than right-wing radio hosts. They said spend. Many people have zero understanding of economics. I get that.
Health care - what valid concerns do they have about health care?
Taxes - employees received a tax cut. If they want more of their own money, they got it already. Tell me what these people are complaining about? Imaginary taxes from the future?
Quote:
No that is NOT all that people are protesting. They are protesting the spending, taxes, health care and big government.
I covered taxes, health care and big government already.
Spending - a fine complaint - but the same as the big government complaint. Its about the Stimulus still ($150 billion this year).
What other new spending programs have been enacted?
Quote:
They are protesting because they do not want the government involved in their health care.
Right, the medicare recipients don't want government involved in their health care.
And people who already have health care through their employer are not eligible for the option.
Quote:
What you feel is true about Obama's health care plan may not be what I feel its true.
Well, if you only watch fox (if) you won't have as many facts as I do.
That doesn't mean you are wrong, just less informed.
Its nothing about feelings or beliefs.
Its a lesser set of facts.
Quote:
From what I personally have read (the actual bill) it does sound to me like the government will be in control of every health insurance company and employer under the HIE. I don't like that. I don;t want the government to set that they think are the standards I want for my health care. There are many other issue I personally have with the bill. Now why are my concerns any less legitimate then those protesting the war?
You've read a warped version of Obama's proposals then.
The insurance exchange will be private companies.
You've seen the facts about insurance and health care profits, I'm certain.
How costs have doubled while our wages have stagnated and fewer small businesses can afford to provide health insurance.
Quote:
My taxes have not gone down and you have no idea who's taxes will go up. Not even Obama knows that. At some point we ALL will pay for this in one way or another.
Do you work?
$400 this year, somewhere around $13 / week tax cut.
Quote:
Well I disagreed with it. I disagree with bailing out any company that has run their business into the ground.
I'm sure you recognized the impact of the auto companies failing.
I'm sure you gave long thought to the millions of jobs that would be lost and what that would have done to an economy that was tanking in september.
Quote:
Well to YOU they are not "valid" concerns but to many they are. You think they have no reason to protest and that is fine that is your opinion but there are many that think they have lots of reasons.
It comes down to the fact that YOU do not decide what is a valid issue. I have listed some for you here I hope you can attempt to see why they are very valid issues.
Its common sense.
Protesting something based on a lie is not valid - its simply a farce and that covers most of the health care complaints.
Last edited by compJockey; 09-15-2009 at 12:08 AM..
Obama is not acting like our parent---at least not a responsible one---maybe a sugar daddy parent.
I don't know why some people can't seem to follow what the consequences are for spending like drunken sailors. As night follows day there will need to be a huge tax increase to pay for all this spending.
As far as I and my hubby we are not spending for anything that is not needed. We are saving for the huge tax increase that will surely come. No stimulus for us. We live in the real world.
Like a woman I heard on the radio. Liberals are like teenagers who only live for today and don't consider the consequences but conservatives look to the future and what will happen in the future when you pass a law.
Someone needs to say---no you are not going out tonight so give me the keys and you are grounded. NO MORE SPENDING.
Before he was so rudely cut off, the man was saying that his two-year-old son was already in debt. That is because of the reckless spending on the part of the federal government (not just in this administration, but others in the past as well). I believe the man's point was that his son would have to bear the burden of paying down the debt that is being increased by this administration (and has been increased by others).
Do you have a grasp of what Obama's spent?
I very much doubt this guy was there complaining about previous administrations, or that he has an idea of what has been spent.
Quote:
You keep saying that taxes have gone down, and you ask for examples of the taxes that have gone up. Until we see our tax returns some time next year, we won't really know how things have changed this year, if at all. The only thing we have to go by is what we hear from those responsible. I have heard Obama say that he would like to reduce the deductions for charitable contributions. That alone amounts to a tax increase for me, if his proposal is carried through.
If you are between jobs, you won't get the tax cut.
Its $13 less taken out of your paycheck (weekly).
The tax cut was started April of this year as part of the stimulus.
It's not based on lies. The whole thing about "death panels" was speculation about what was possible under the "Obama health plan." What people don't want is the federal government running health care. This is what Obama is currently promoting. This is fact.
Its based on lies.
He suggests an exchange, with private insurance companies.
And some mechanism of keeping insurance companies honest (so they discontinue ripping off americans), of which the option is one possible solution.
Outlawing pre-existing conditions as well.
I've addressed your tax comment.
If you are employed, you are being taxed less.
This is a fact.
Quote:
What does this have to do with higher taxes?
Cigarette taxes have increased.
Quote:
"Shirley, you can't be serious!" Every proposal that Obama has promoted since he has been in office has greatly expanded the power of the federal government, at the expense of the freedom and liberty of American citizens. I would hardly call it a Glen Beck fantasy... probably more like a nightmare.
What liberties have you lost?
What freedoms have you lost?
What proposals? Can you name 2 or 3?
Quote:
Again, this is the job of the parents. This is a minor thing, but why does Obama seem to think that he has to be like a parent to every child in America? He doesn't need to do that, and I think that's what many parents are objecting to.
Bush1 and Reagan did it as well.
Bush2 read to schoolchildren.
Reagan talked briefly about policy.
Quote:
The trend from this administration is that they seem to be telling America, "You can't take care of yourself, so we need to step in and take care of you. All you have to do in return is pledge your allegiance to the government. If everyone does his part for 'the greater good' by paying his share of the burden, we can all live equally."
What, lol?
WTF are you talking about?
Are you talking about them cleaning up the tax haven mess?
Asking people to actually pay taxes rather than hiding money?
Last edited by compJockey; 09-15-2009 at 12:10 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
