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Old 09-16-2009, 09:25 AM
 
2,341 posts, read 4,045,152 times
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:31 AM
 
Location: East Chicago, IN
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This entire country is divided on race, politics, and whatever else. Something major akin to 9/11 would have to happen in order to bring people even remotely to the same page again.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,992,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
As a minority, I think its terrible that our first minority President is someone with such a radical background and politics and such an inability to understand, identify with, or communicate with mainstream America. I am embarassed by people like Barack and Michelle Obama, Jeremiah Wright, Henry Louis Gates, Sonia Sotomayor, Kanye West/Beyonce, and the illegal immigrant protestors who waved Mexican and Central American flags on our soil. I really wished our first minority president had been someone like Michael Steele, Bobby Jindal or Colin Powell.
The fact that Obama won the popular vote is probably pretty good evidence that he can communicate with "mainstream America". What you want is someone who panders to "upper class" America, like 90% of the rest of our elected officials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Obama's election is fostering more and more divisions in our country and emboldens and "empowers" racist and separatist people with a chip on their shoulder like Gates and Kanye.
Obama had absolutely nothing to do with the views of Kanye or Gates. Stop trying to link the two. It is a complete fallacy. We should simply not elect minorities because we are concerned a few in the community might feel a bit more balsy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Kanye West is a racist who believes Beyonce shoulda won even though she has no talent, because they despise country music and the culture it represents, he played that same stunt when he stormed off the stage when he lost to Gretchen Wilson a couple years back. He was also the one who ran his mouth about Bush not caring about black people.
So what? What does Kanye West being a racist have anything to do with Obama? Obama came right out and called him a jack ass.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I am not Asian American or Chinese American. I am an unhyphenated American of Chinese ancestry, that is how I see myself. People complain about how after 9-11 people blamed American Muslims of sympathizing with the terrorists. Now I know msot did not but that is hard to convince people when for years they have been all about Islamic and ethnic pride and openly resisting assimilation. I think people like Sonia Sotomayor, Wrigt, etc do a disserve to those African Americans, Hispanic Americans and other minorities who are Americans first and do not put our racial community or countries of origin before America.
Yet, you clearly fail to make any mention of the various Euro-centric cultural pride statements. There are dozens of "Italian" and "Irish" day parades in this country, especially in the north east, where they fly the Irish and Italian flags. You attack African American, Hispanics and MINORITIES yet make no mention of whites walking around referring to themselves as Italian, Irish, Russian, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I identify with people who share my culture, outlook, religion and values regardless of their skin color. People like Kanye, Michelle, Wright and Gates should stop having a chip on their shoulder and thinking that race is the thing that matters most.
Kanye West DOES identify with those who he perceives to share his culture, religion, and values. Many of his beliefs are not inline with mainstream white America, but they are in line with many of the people he identifies with, and that is why they lift him up when he makes outbursts like he does, rather then chastise him.

By the way, people like West are probably going over board a bit, but they have every right to complain about the unfair treatment of minorities. To this day, having a non anglicized name, or one to perceived to be "black", makes you over 100% less likely to be called back for an interview on a job. The fact is, most people would like minorities to simply suck up the continued racism against them and be one big fat happy family, even though they still dont have an equal place at the table.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I think as a minority if we want to be accepted as equals and as part of mainstream American adn not be distrusted we need to ACT LIKE IT. We should act like we are just Americans and not emphasize race. I spent the summer down South and the vast majority of white people I have encountered and talked to really want to move on and say it is blacks and others who want to foster divisions, birng up the past, ask for special treatment, they are the ones who racialized the Obama election and some of what the media reported as racist acts (while they indeed are wrong and should be punished) have actually been provoked by some individuals' racism on their own part and the arrogance they displayed regarding how "their people are in charge now".
The South, home of the KKK? The South, the most racially divided region in the country? The South, that still has places to this day that have no problem making it known that they have a problem serving blacks?

Oh by the way, how many whites voted for McCain because he wasnt black?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Gates probably hates being called black and insists on African American. Is he from Africa? Does he speak any African languages? In my grad school the day Obama was inaugurated an African American girl came in a full tribal African costume saying she wants to celebrate that day. It was a mix of elements from all over Africa and people actually from specific African countries found it laughable and ignorant.
The fact is that, a large portion of America, especially the old money whites, do not accept Gates as a "full fledged" American. He is a "black" or worse, a derogatory replacment term. People openly refer to our president by derogatory names. They have no respect for him because he is a minority. It has little to nothing to do with his politics.

Obama played the game for most of his life. He got good grades, graduated from a prominant school, lived his life on the clean side for the most part, donated his time to helping people, yet, he is still looked down on. Obama is a clear example of however much a minority, especially one of "black" heritage achieves, they will still never be respected by much of white America. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I think ALL of us truly need to put race and ethnicity behind us and realize that we are all Americans before we're anything else.
Judging from the tone of your post, this really means, minorities should forget that they are continuously reminded that they "arent part of the club", pretend like they are, and happily accept all outcomes that come of that. Didnt they have a name for that back in the day....Uncle Tom was it?
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,256 posts, read 16,167,760 times
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Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
I understand what you mean about it being "unintentional." She is a product of her upbringing and has never been challenged to examine her beliefs. If you asked her if she disliked black people she would doubtless say "Of course not. I have known many nice black folks. People are people." And that is what she THINKS she believes. She has never examined that she also thinks black men are often criminals and the ones who aren't are big exceptions to the rule, such as Colin Powell . . . and that most black women have children out of wedlock . . . and that anyone who is black and has a professional degree probably got it "handed" to them b/c of affirmative action.

I know a lot of folks like this lady. She is benign in her lack of understanding. You are right to think she is harmless. She just doesn't realize that so much of what she absorbed about people who are different from her was based on stereotypes and bias.
Pretty much. My grandmother was the same way. She was always labeling things as "something white people do" and had a lot of rules and beliefs about how I should act when in the presence of white people...I never really listened to her though; my attitude is equal opportunity
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,214,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
If it was a black man with a name like Michael Steele there would have been no controversy. There would not have been this kind of fear and cultural alienation about him. Obama throughout his life actively sought to seek out his "blackness" and chose to attend Wright's church in the South Side vs. pursue the American Dream and live in the suburbs or a small town like the Dream is. He chose to marry a radical activist like Michelle.
If I am reading this statement correctly, you wouldn't have such a big problem with Obama if he "acted more white", and didn't seek out his "blackness" quite so much?
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,465 posts, read 3,945,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
...
Most of the fear of Obama was not because he was black, but because of his suspicious past, like his associations with Wright, Gates, and Farrakhan and Ayers, and his suspected Muslim past. If it was a black man with a name like Michael Steele there would have been no controversy. There would not have been this kind of fear and cultural alienation about him. Obama throughout his life actively sought to seek out his "blackness" and chose to attend Wright's church in the South Side vs. pursue the American Dream and live in the suburbs or a small town like the Dream is. He chose to marry a radical activist like Michelle.

About Wright, I don't see how the church demonination can still accept him and deal with him after the things he has said and the things he has preached.
What in Michelle's past would make her a radical activist?
Who says the American dream is to live in the suburbs or a small town?

Trinity UCC was a failing congregation prior to Rev. Wright's arrival. Although he didn't do it alone, Rev. Wright was the driving force behind Trinity's growth. The congregation of Trinity UCC itself had plenty of opportunity to leave the south side for greener pastures. Trinity draws members from a wide area. They could have easily left and abandoned the struggling neighborhood in which Trinity sits, but Rev. Wright challenged them to not only minister to the well to do, but also the poor. Trinity has also donated their time and money to establish other congregations in struggling neighborhoods.

Stephen Mansfield, a conservative evangelical, who actually attended services at Trinity while writing his book "The Faith of Barack Obama" wrote the following.

Obama would also find at Trinity encouragement for his intellectual and professional quest. It is not a coincidence that he attended Harvard, practiced law, ran for public office in Illinois, and sought the presidency all after his connection to Trinity began. Trinity called for people to rise, created an environment of learning and achievement, and modeled the pursuit of intellectual excellence. Another pastor might joke about a seminary being a cemetery and about how believers could "get their learning and lose their burning." Jeremiah Wright, a man with four earned degrees, used, as Obama later wrote, "twenty-five-cent words" with regularity. He hired only well-educated staff, put university professors in charge of Sunday school classes, and worked to send the youth of his church to the most reputable schools in the land. Understanding a single Jeremiah Wright sermon might require knowing something of Middle East history, Greek, Hebrew, the amendments to the U.S. Constitution, the causes of World War II, the politics of the Sudan, and the details of how syphilis is spread. Obama thrived in such an environment. It fueled his intellectual curiosity, answered his theological questions, and honored his intention to rise on the strength of his mind.

Many in the denomination recognize the amazing ministries and achievements of Trinity UCC under Rev. Wright's stewardship. Rev. Wright retired and gave his last sermon in Feb 2008. His retirement was in the works well before Obama announced his presidential run. Most of the coverage of Rev. Wright didn't occur until after he had retired. Trinity's reputation was such that they were able to recruit Rev. Moss III even though he was in line to replace his father the Rev. Moss Jr.

I think Rev. Wright had something to say about your original post at the National Press Club, where he said the following.

The prophetic theology of the black church has always seen and still sees all of God's children as sisters and brothers, equals who need reconciliation, who need to be reconciled as equals in order for us to walk together into the future which God has prepared for us.

Reconciliation does not mean that blacks become whites or whites become blacks and Hispanics become Asian or that Asians become Europeans.

Reconciliation means we embrace our individual rich histories, all of them. We retain who we are as persons of different cultures, while acknowledging that those of other cultures are not superior or inferior to us. They are just different from us.

We root out any teaching of superiority, inferiority, hatred, or prejudice.

And we recognize for the first time in modern history in the West that the other who stands before us with a different color of skin, a different texture of hair, different music, different preaching styles, and different dance moves, that other is one of God's children just as we are, no better, no worse, prone to error and in need of forgiveness, just as we are.

Only then will liberation, transformation, and reconciliation become realities and cease being ever elusive ideals.
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Old 09-16-2009, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,608 posts, read 9,805,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Most of the fear of Obama was not because he was black, but because of his suspicious past, like his associations with Wright, Gates, and Farrakhan and Ayers, and his suspected Muslim past. If it was a black man with a name like Michael Steele there would have been no controversy. There would not have been this kind of fear and cultural alienation about him. Obama throughout his life actively sought to seek out his "blackness" and chose to attend Wright's church in the South Side vs. pursue the American Dream and live in the suburbs or a small town like the Dream is. He chose to marry a radical activist like Michelle.
As far as I know being Muslim is not a crime. Having a Muslim sounding name is also not a crime. Nor should it induce fear in an intelligent, thinking citizen of the United States. Wright, Farrakhan, Sharpton, Jackson and several other black leaders have been citizens of the U.S. and outspoken about racial politics without that causing them to instigate terrorist violence from the black population. If Obama's name or cultural identity was really at the heart of the 'fear' of him then it was wrong and it is ultimately a good thing that it did not lead to his defeat.

Myself I am completely assimilated into the model of the all American WASP. I come by it honestly. I was bussed from an early age to an all white school from the 'hood' where I resided. You cannot determine my race or cultural ancestry over the telephone but life is not lived over the telephone. My politics are liberal, white, politics and my partner is white. Nevertheless I am black. Very black, and that is how the world sees me and treats me. Asians are seen and treated VERY differently and for an Asian to even dare compare themselves to Blacks or Hispanics smacks of pure trollish righteousness.

It is not even possible to compare blacks descended from U.S. slaves and blacks descended from African immigrants or Caribbean immigrants. But early childhood education plays a HUGE part and if a majority of African Americans had access to the school system as it exists in predominantly white parts of American cities there would be lots more Colin Powell, Codolezza Rice type role models for black youth. Obama might not have felt the need to identify with a urban evolved ghetto black if he had had my childhood. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows, so much is up to the individual person.

Hispanics also do not have a history of slavery in the U.S. and they have been pitted against blacks by whites who praise their 'work eithic' and their 'devotion to family' and tell them that they are better than blacks. Asians of all kinds: Chinese, Japanese and Indian are told that they are 'better' than blacks and they pat themselves on the back and occasionally make pronouncements like the o.p. Another chinese, Kenneth Eng wrote a very controversial piece in Asia Weekly about black people and why weren't they more like Asians. It is the worst kind of superiority complex.

H
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,076,752 times
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Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
This entire country is divided on race, politics, and whatever else. Something major akin to 9/11 would have to happen in order to bring people even remotely to the same page again.
Agreed. Hard to believe we'd need something of that magnitude to help people realize we need to meet somewhere in the middle if we want to get anything accomplished. Sad really.
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,479 posts, read 13,825,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
This entire country is divided on race, politics, and whatever else. Something major akin to 9/11 would have to happen in order to bring people even remotely to the same page again.
An event like that only brings the love & goodwill for a short time. Things eventually go back to how it was.
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Old 09-16-2009, 03:36 PM
 
Location: CO
1,599 posts, read 3,076,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Most of the fear of Obama was not because he was black, but because of his suspicious past, like his associations with Wright, Gates, and Farrakhan and Ayers, and his suspected Muslim past.
If it was his past people were worried about, I'd imagine Bush would have had similar concerns surrounding his drug use and wild past. But most seemed to think that it was long enough ago that it wouldn't influence his ability to lead. Why is it different for Obama? And what does "suspicion" of his Muslim past mean? Was he going to sneak into the White House and blow it up?

Irrational, exaggerated, unreasonable. All words that come to mind with this baloney. I wish all these people who are "suspicious" of Obama were just as suspicious with the last president when they reelected him. Maybe the nation would be in a better position.
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