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Old 08-15-2013, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beliciano View Post
I have heard of those names as well. When my grandparents were growing up in Honduras there was a small amount of Haitian immigrants as well!!

Cuba is packed with people of Haitian descent. Most came to cut sugarcane in Pre-Castro times, because they would do it cheaper, same with the British West Indians. Oriente, Las Tunas, and Santiago de Cuba were the main places blacks migrated to in Cuba. I probably still have family there lol. I had a very old family member tell me the Haitians had the hardest time in Cuba and were treated the worst of all the blacks in the Cuba.

The thing is many Cubans and Dominicans of Haitian descent have Spanish last names these days so it is hard to tell sometimes.
I always wondered how some black Hondurans had French surnames. I always thought the Mexican musician Abraham Laboriel might have come from Afro-Cuban origins through, possibly, Veracruz because of that French surname. But I later found out that his father was Honduran.

 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIBONEY View Post
This is what you originally said:



And I explained in detail why that is not correct. As a group they don't show the "same phenotypic spectrum." Now you're saying the proportions are different which is not the same thing.
Actually African Americans DO have a wide phenotypic expression. In fact it may be among the widest in the world. Remember, African Americans (AAs) are an ETHNIC GROUP, NOT a racial group.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I always wondered how some black Hondurans had French surnames. I always thought the Mexican musician Abraham Laboriel might have come from Afro-Cuban origins through, possibly, Veracruz because of that French surname. But I later found out that his father was Honduran.
The famous Laboriel family in Mexico is of Honduran Garifuna origins, and many of them settled in Mexico where many of them were born and raised and still live today.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
The problem is not that Dominicans are considered black because they are mostly- or mixed-African people. The problem is that Dominicans themselves are ashamed of this, and that is a direct result of the self-hating, Eurocentric culture Dominicans have inherited. Those pictured are no different in terms of Africanness and mixed background than African Americans.




African Americans show the same phenotypic spectrum.



I don't think that Dominicans should be ashamed of any aspect of their culture. What gets me is that they downplay just one aspect and overemphasize the others. Dominicans are Dominicans, and they should be proud of their heritage. 85% of Dominicans have African ancestry; a small minority acknowledge this, and a smaller yet proportion embrace it.



Now that I blame on the segregationist, exclusionist policies of America throughout its history; but still, while all Dominicans can call themselves Dominican, there is still a color/caste system there that rivals India in its complexity. Latin America in general is like that, but the Dominican is a special case because nowhere else is a place with such a large black population so ashamed of it.
Dominicans are not "ashamed" of having black roots...

The issue is two part...

1 - the Haitian/Dominican war resulted in thousands of Dominican women being savagely raped and maimed. On top of this being the case for many years previous ti the revolution. Dominicans, while not a first world country by any means, were a much more civilized society than Haiti. So it's just an issue of "remembering" or "never forgetting"..And surely, you don't fault BLACK AMERICANS for holding that sentiment....do you?

Secondly, many don't want to associate themselves with the highly subscribed culture of Black America...and this holds true with blacks in America too.

And I don't blame them.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Dominicans are not "ashamed" of having black roots...

The issue is two part...

1 - the Haitian/Dominican war resulted in thousands of Dominican women being savagely raped and maimed. On top of this being the case for many years previous ti the revolution. Dominicans, while not a first world country by any means, were a much more civilized society than Haiti. So it's just an issue of "remembering" or "never forgetting"..And surely, you don't fault BLACK AMERICANS for holding that sentiment....do you?

Secondly, many don't want to associate themselves with the highly subscribed culture of Black America...and this holds true with blacks in America too.

And I don't blame them.
You would be surprised how many Haitian Americans feel the same way.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Dominicans are not "ashamed" of having black roots...
It depends on which Dominican you speak to. Many are definitely ashamed. Some aren't.

Quote:
The issue is two part...

1 - the Haitian/Dominican war resulted in thousands of Dominican women being savagely raped and maimed. Dominicans, while not a first world country by any means, were a much more civilized society than Haiti. So it's just an issue of "remembering" or "never forgetting".
Define "civilized." Rape and maiming during wartime is not exclusive to Haitians. That has occurred all over the world since the beginning of time. Certainly many if not all of those Dominican women who were raped and maimed were also of African descent - just like the Haitian invaders.


Quote:
.And surely, you don't fault BLACK AMERICANS for holding that sentiment....do you?
I don't fault anyone for holding any sentiment. What sentiment do BLACK AMERICANS hold?

Quote:
Secondly, many don't want to associate themselves with the highly subscribed culture of Black America...and this holds true with blacks in America too.
I don't get your point. I am discussing Dominicans in general and their self-perception, as well as the self-denial or African heritage among some. I didn't mention Black American culture at all, and indeed this is irrelevant. No connection between the two.

Quote:
And I don't blame them.
Again.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 33,863,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureOpulence View Post
The famous Laboriel family in Mexico is of Honduran Garifuna origins, and many of them settled in Mexico where many of them were born and raised and still live today.
Interesting.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adirondackguy123 View Post
Where in central america?

all of the people I've met from central america look like Mexicans, but also the vast majority of central america is Mestizo and indian.
Mexico has a very large black and Afro-Mexican population. There are many Afro-Mexicans in the USA. You could have met one and not even know it.

Central America is a very ethnically and racially diverse region.
 
Old 08-15-2013, 07:38 PM
 
578 posts, read 752,871 times
Reputation: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by renault View Post
There's always one idiot who has to blame world racism on the US, as if the US invented it or something.

People need to see more of the world. If they did they'd realize that the US isn't nearly as racist as many of the homogeneous countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia.

Here's just one example- Italy, a country united by racism.
Exactly. Most places outside of the USA have had racism for centuries. In fact European colonial powers got their ideas of enslavement and slave trade of blacks and Africans from the Arabs and their massive successful slave trade which lasted longer and Europeans picked up racial gradations and classifications from the Arabs. The Spanish and Portuguese and French got it from the Arabs and British conquest people and colonists picked it up from the other European groups.

I'm tired of the ridiculous blame the USA game that seems to go on especially from people who don't have any clue on the very more complex aspects of USA history. People are misinformed on USA which is sad
 
Old 08-15-2013, 07:42 PM
 
578 posts, read 752,871 times
Reputation: 122
No, Haitians may get treated the way they do because it's a poor country and they are competing for resources. Haitians are often illegal in Dominican Republic. They have to follow the rules and the laws.

And the animosity towards some Haitians in the DR comes from the fact that they raped and abused Dominicans during the Haitian occupation and control of the DR. And that memory still carries and lingers on to many Dominicans.

Xenophobia is not the same thing as racism. IJS

Last edited by ObscureOpulence; 08-15-2013 at 08:18 PM..
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