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Old 10-28-2013, 12:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
When did the slave trade end? The 1800s? That is not the same as "several hundred generations." That is less than 10 generations removed, even less than 6 in some cases. I know that even in the 1950s there was a tiny number of Cubans still alive who had been born in Africa, and many people there who personally knew grand and great-grandparents who were African born. The Dominican connections are not that close, but they are not that far away either.
Actually many Cubans still can trace what parts of Africa they descend from. The last Africans were being brought into Cuba well until the 1880s and even the 1890s.

In some parts of DR some blacks even still have African names.

 
Old 10-28-2013, 12:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Hmm, have you ever been to Panama? Panama is actually a very mixed race nation.

Are you going by Panamanians you met in the USA? What you tend to see in the USA does not reflect in totality the full aspects of their respective home nations. Most Panamanians in the USA often tend to be "black", but in Panama blacks are a minority and Panama is very mixed.

It's funny though how you impose and apply the racial label of black on Panamanians bet then when it comes to Dominicans you turn around and don't refer to Dominicans as such. You can't impose the very same standards on other people but then reject it for another group of people. That's hypocritical and flawed at best. You can't have it both ways.
I have been to Panama... And I absolutely can have it both ways. Because the colonization of Panama and DR are two very distinctly different cases.

Their historical demographics are much different. Panama was colonized by Colombia equally as long as it was by Spain...and Panama had a huge influx from Ecuador and Venezuela as well.

Totally different demographics...

DR is also twice as far north of the equator as opposed to Panama.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 12:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Wow, you certainly are angry about the fact that Dominicans are predominantly of sub-Saharan African ancestry. If it doesn't matter then why do you care how others classify DRs? DRs can and do label themselves as they wish.....but that does not change how they are viewed by others. They have no control over the classification given to them by other people. So why do you care if it does not matter?

FYI, the indigenous population of the island of Hispanola (DR and Haiti) had been eradicted by the 19th century, so, yes, the people sprung from the majority African slave population.
Dominicans are mostly of European and African descent, with notable Taino as well as other notable indigenous/Native American lineages.

Haitians still have Taino/Arawak and other Native American lineages along with African and European descent.

And the population of slaves was not as numerous as one would be led to believe on the Dominican side of the island.

There were also many escaped slaves throughout Hispaniola.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post

And the population of slaves was not as numerous as one would be led to believe on the Dominican side of the island.
One of the reasons Dominicans and Haitians, for the most part, look so different.

But...black is black....if it's perceptible. You're black lol. And if you are perceptibly black..that supersedes everything else. This is seriously the long winded point the OP is trying to get to but simply won't say it.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the phrase "flinging poo against the wall and hoping that it sticks". Which is what happens when people make a random, absurd claim that cannot be quantified. Like you just did.



Yes, the INDIGENOUS population......there was still, by that point, 50-60 years of mixing.



Mmhm mmhm, along with indentured servants....continue.



LOL! This is hilarious. So, by your logic, black skin is not black skin unless it comes from Africa? I guess Indias caste system is based on just..well...I don't know? Lollll

I could have sworn my best friends uncle had his house burned down in his village because he was black...but turns out he is using the wrong words now and doesn't know what the hell he is. Please tell me what he is so I can let him know.

Back to the "predominantly" thing again...

Haitians? PREDOMINANTLY AFRICAN

Dominicans? Not so much

You are the one reaching



DOMINICANS....I AM YOUR FATHER
The Indigenous/Native American populations of the Western hemisphere are NOT black and they are certainly NOT African. The Native Americans migrated from East Asia thousands of years ago and crossed the Bering strait into Alaska moving southward and spreading out throughout the Western hemisphere.

The Spanish imported Native Americans from other Spanish colonies into Haiti and DR as indentured servants and slaves. There were also many Gypsies and Sephardic Jewish and poor Spanish slaves and servants in Hispaniola. In addition, we cannot forget about the first blacks in Hispaniola being Ladinos, which are people of black African descent being born and reared in Spain and Catholicized and living no differently than other Spaniards. The Ladino blacks were the first blacks to go to Spanish colonies and many were conquistadores as well as colonial founders and set up colonies.

Many blacks that escaped into the mountains or interior or woods or jungle mixed early on with Tainos. And it's many Afro-Dominicans that are the conservators and preservers of Taino traditions and culture in the DR etc.

In fact it's been said by ethnomusicologists that Haitian voodoo/voudu is based or derived from Taino cultural tradition and practices with other influences being added to it.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:13 AM
 
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And to be honest, people should let Dominicans be as they wish. It's often black identified people pushing black identity on people that don't want to identify with them. Wanting someone to identify with you is absolutely pathetic and pitiful.

One thing though that's annoying and offensive is when one group imposes the same identification standards or assumptions on others and of others, that they abhor when done to them.

Human race has so many issues.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post
Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the phrase "flinging poo against the wall and hoping that it sticks". Which is what happens when people make a random, absurd claim that cannot be quantified. Like you just did.



Yes, the INDIGENOUS population......there was still, by that point, 50-60 years of mixing.



Mmhm mmhm, along with indentured servants....continue.



LOL! This is hilarious. So, by your logic, black skin is not black skin unless it comes from Africa? I guess Indias caste system is based on just..well...I don't know? Lollll

I could have sworn my best friends uncle had his house burned down in his village because he was black...but turns out he is using the wrong words now and doesn't know what the hell he is. Please tell me what he is so I can let him know.

Back to the "predominantly" thing again...

Haitians? PREDOMINANTLY AFRICAN

Dominicans? Not so much

You are the one reaching



DOMINICANS....I AM YOUR FATHER
While Haiti definitely has a lot of people that have some African ancestry a lot of people there have mixture of other things as well. It's more diverse than some people are willing to admit. More genetic studies need to be done in Haiti and it's also important for people to travel to Haiti.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
The Indigenous/Native American populations of the Western hemisphere are NOT black and they are certainly NOT African. The Native Americans migrated from East Asia thousands of years ago and crossed the Bering strait into Alaska moving southward and spreading out throughout the Western hemisphere.

The Spanish imported Native Americans from other Spanish colonies into Haiti and DR as indentured servants and slaves. There were also many Gypsies and Sephardic Jewish and poor Spanish slaves and servants in Hispaniola. In addition, we cannot forget about the first blacks in Hispaniola being Ladinos, which are people of black African descent being born and reared in Spain and Catholicized and living no differently than other Spaniards. The Ladino blacks were the first blacks to go to Spanish colonies and many were conquistadores as well as colonial founders and set up colonies.

Many blacks that escaped into the mountains or interior or woods or jungle mixed early on with Tainos. And it's many Afro-Dominicans that are the conservators and preservers of Taino traditions and culture in the DR etc.

In fact it's been said by ethnomusicologists that Haitian voodoo/voudu is based or derived from Taino cultural tradition and practices with other influences being added to it.
Look, Tainos and ANY native from North/Central/South America were BROWN SKINNED. In the context of western culture we just alleviate natives (and any non-hispanic) of the "black" classification...for whatever reason. It's semantics. We don't force hispanics to identify as black/white because we have some deep underlying hatred of Africans. At least that is what I tend to believe.

I lean towards it going back to the stigmatization of dark skin and the observation of the distinct differences between dark and light skinned people.

Like a previous poster alluded to...the taboo of "black" predates colonialism...
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
African Americans struggle with blackness too. All black sub groups in the Americas do.

That's just the way it is when you live in a white dominated society that constructed these nations the way that the Europeans did.
Actually a lot of these social constructed issues and struggle with blackness stem from the Arab colonialism and Arab slave trade. It goes back to ancient times and olden days. Arab slave trade promulgated the oppression and denigration and issues that blacks would face globally and abroad and lead to white supremacy and European colonialism and the slave trade that was conducted by Europeans. It was the Arabs that started it all.

But then again it all stems from an issue among the human race. Every society had slavery and oppression of human beings.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 01:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post

Human race has so many issues.
That I agree with you on 100% (and most everything else, actually)

We are a failed species. Or maybe not, we're just animals that put too much stock in our own ability to rationalize and some things are beyond logic.

But 200,000 years in and to not have the issues worked out doesn't bode well for h.sapien.
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