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Old 10-28-2013, 04:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
And thank you. African Americans (AAs) and other black identified people and groups are in no way shape or form a divine group or have room to be speaking on how Dominicans or others should identify. Many black groups worldwide have these issues of colorism and self hatred.
)

True and there is much discussion about the social signiifyers of bleaching in Jamaica and Africa and excessive hair straightening/weaves/wigs among black women in general.

Now can you admit that Dominicans do suffer from some degree of self hatred towards their African heritage and privilege light skin over darker skin? Why is it noted that there have been only three Miss DR Universe,with very visible African ancestry, and at least one of them seems no darker than your average Dominican woman one might see around NY or Santo Domingo.

This is what the argument is REALLY about so you get nowhere by claiming that self hatred exists among other groups. We know this and admit this and in Jamaica there are agressive measures to eradicate bleaching.

Is there a similar discussion among Dominicans? Surely many Dominican intellectuals admit to this but most ordinary Dominicans seek to HIDE this issue.

 
Old 10-28-2013, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
And to be honest, people should let Dominicans be as they wish. It's often black identified people pushing black identity on people that don't want to identify with them. Wanting someone to identify with you is absolutely pathetic and pitiful.

One thing though that's annoying and offensive is when one group imposes the same identification standards or assumptions on others and of others, that they abhor when done to them.

Human race has so many issues.

Actually we do not care that one can look at a Dominican by skin color and pretty much tell where they stand socially. Elites mostly white. Grass roots much darker. If that is fine with you then go ahead.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 05:08 PM
 
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[quote=Julie_inFall;31987308]The Skin Color Paradox and the American Racial Order | Jennifer L. Hochschild



Given this information, is there really any wonder why dark "Latinos" upon arriving in the U.S. want to distance themselves from the "black" label. Black is viewed as poor, ugly, and uneducated, [quote]


That would be interesting if we didnt see ample evidence that this exists in latin America even nore so than the USA.

Compare US TV and that of most latin nations and determine how many visibly African descended looking people one sees in either. Almost every ad in the USA has at least one black person. MSNBC, CNN, and even FOX and CNBC have many blacks talking about a variety of topics.

Curious to know how it goes in most of these Latin nations. Is there some one looking like Oprah with high stature or power? Kerry Washington lead actress on a popular show in which the screen writer, director and producer is a DARK skinned black woman. Black actors big box office hits, Denzil, Will, etc.

If not then they need to stop ridiculing race relations in the USA.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 05:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
So race relations were "fairly good or decent" when people of African descent were enslaved and considered 3/5ths of a human being?

Maybe it was as it is in Latin America. Be seen and not heard. If you disguise a problem of inequity that means that it doesnt exist.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 06:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
And Whoopie Goldberg received similar push back from some Latinos when some one was looking for a big named black actress (to attract box office) to play Celia Cruz.

Maybe some AAs didnt think that Zoe would capture the essence of being AA just as many Latinos didnt think that Whoopie would capture the essence of being an AfroCuban female.
I don't really buy the notion that Saldana got any real pushback about the Nina Simone thing. She's has ALWAYS been able to knock down black roles with apparent ease and I've never heard any criticism. Hell, if folks were gonna get bent outta shape over any of her black portrayals, it would've been the role of Uhura on Star Trek...a role with significant cultural importance. Nichelle Nichols herself gave Saldana her blessing.

As for Whoopie playing Celia Cruz, that makes sense. Celia was definitely not ambiguously black like Zoe Saldana.
 
Old 10-28-2013, 09:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
True and there is much discussion about the social signiifyers of bleaching in Jamaica and Africa and excessive hair straightening/weaves/wigs among black women in general.

Now can you admit that Dominicans do suffer from some degree of self hatred towards their African heritage and privilege light skin over darker skin? Why is it noted that there have been only three Miss DR Universe,with very visible African ancestry, and at least one of them seems no darker than your average Dominican woman one might see around NY or Santo Domingo.

This is what the argument is REALLY about so you get nowhere by claiming that self hatred exists among other groups. We know this and admit this and in Jamaica there are agressive measures to eradicate bleaching.

Is there a similar discussion among Dominicans? Surely many Dominican intellectuals admit to this but most ordinary Dominicans seek to HIDE this issue.
If you want to make a principled argument, how about you just discuss the hundreds of millions of people worldwide who take measures, from great to trivial, to alter their appearance?

Unless you can furnish some hard scientific evidence that "black dominicans" or anybody black...have severe dissociative disorders or "self loathing" as opposed to the white woman who wakes up in the morning and just wants to "look cute" when she puts make up on.

It's semantics...and it's usually from somewhat bitter women who don't really focus internally, but externally...because they too wish to enjoy the luxuries of vanity. It's a shallow premise and deserves to get disregarded.

And no matter what degree of truth there is to the "beauty complex"..maybe people need to start getting over the fact that people will like what they like.
 
Old 10-30-2013, 05:30 PM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,997 posts, read 5,729,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes View Post
Haitians oppressed the Dominicans and tried to control them. In the beginning and first decade and a half or so of Haitian occupation, Dominicans were blessed and happy to be under Haitian rule, as slavery became abolished thanks to the Haitians, but eventually it became overwhelming as Haitians sought to sever ties with the Vatican and the Pope and stomp out certain Catholic traditions and certain aspects of Spanish influenced culture on the Dominican side of the island so, many Dominicans began to fight back. In addition the Haitians massacared and raped many people on the Spanish speaking sides and parts of the island. In addition many land was stolen from the Dominicans and occupied by the Haitians. Many whites and mixed race peoples even faced hate and oppression and violence from Black Haitian perpetrators and aggressors. Many outsiders looking in seem to forget about these atrocities committed against the Dominicans by the Haitian peoples. That's also where lots of animosity between Haiti and the DR and vice versa stems from.
so what happened to haiti? if they were once on top as murderous thieving rapist, groups like that usually do well in the end (america,canada,australia...all of europe)
 
Old 10-31-2013, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,577 posts, read 2,440,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
True and there is much discussion about the social signiifyers of bleaching in Jamaica and Africa and excessive hair straightening/weaves/wigs among black women in general.

Now can you admit that Dominicans do suffer from some degree of self hatred towards their African heritage and privilege light skin over darker skin? Why is it noted that there have been only three Miss DR Universe,with very visible African ancestry, and at least one of them seems no darker than your average Dominican woman one might see around NY or Santo Domingo.

This is what the argument is REALLY about so you get nowhere by claiming that self hatred exists among other groups. We know this and admit this and in Jamaica there are agressive measures to eradicate bleaching.

Is there a similar discussion among Dominicans? Surely many Dominican intellectuals admit to this but most ordinary Dominicans seek to HIDE this issue.
Well, it is true that such issues exist among multiple other groups. So why do Dominicans seem to be pointed out more than others when their nation is a mixture of European/African to greater degree than so many others? To me, it seems that they are overly criticized.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 05:16 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Handz View Post

And no matter what degree of truth there is to the "beauty complex"..maybe people need to start getting over the fact that people will like what they like.

If you were honest about the situation in the Americas you would admit that there is a whole world of difference between those who try to remove the kinks, and are embarrassed by them, or who bleach their skin, and some white female of Northern Euro ancestry who dyes their hair blonde.

There is a whole history of "bad" hair/"good" hair and every where in the Americas those with varying degrees of Afd\ro ancestry know what it means. Some countries think its a problem worthy of discussion, as it reveals a deep seated self hatred. Its symptoms are not only limited to what people do to transform themselves, but who is valued and who is held less worthy.

Other countries find various excuses down play the problem. Which means that the problem continues to fester.
 
Old 10-31-2013, 05:23 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
. So why do Dominicans seem to be pointed out more than others when their nation is a mixture of European/African to greater degree than so many others? To me, it seems that they are overly criticized.

Talk to a Jamaican about bleaching and the skin color preference that brown people enjoy vs black and he will admit to it. Reveal discussions about what people are doing to deal with the problem, and poiunt to the progress that has been made as a result.

Talk to a Dominican and one gets some rant about Haiti and pretense that this problem doesnt exist. Its the very fact that the DR is probably the only country in Latin America where the vast majority of the population show visible African ancestry is why they get singled out.

I saw an Anthony Bourdain show on the Dominican Republic and I was just amazed at the pretense often heard from Dominicans about how few "blacks" live there. Most of the people were closer to the African side of the Afro Euro continuum than they were to the Euro, as would be the case in Puerto Rico, and even Cuba.

The other reason is the fact that as recently as the 80s a president (Balaguer) wrote a very racist piece of dogma basically suggesting that the DR is a little piece of Spain sadly stuck next to a "savage" piece of Africa. Now if there was wide spread refutation of this analyis among Dominicans I will stand corrected. I use Balaguer because Trujillo was a savage dictator and the 40s and 50s were much less enlightened times.
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