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Old 09-16-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
Reputation: 22370

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If you aren't concerned, you should be.

This info is from the US Dept of the Treasury. But it took the Freedom of Information Act to get the documents.

EXCERPT:

The Obama administration has privately concluded that a cap and trade law would cost American taxpayers up to $200 billion a year, the equivalent of hiking personal income taxes by about 15 percent.

A previously unreleased analysis prepared by the U.S. Department of Treasury says the total in new taxes would be between $100 billion to $200 billion a year. At the upper end of the administration's estimate, the cost per American household would be an extra $1,761 a year.

A second memorandum, which was prepared for Obama's transition team after the November election, says this about climate change policies: "Economic costs will likely be on the order of 1 percent of GDP, making them equal in scale to all existing environmental regulation."

The documents (PDF) were obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the free-market Competitive Enterprise Institute and released on Tuesday.

Obama administration: Cap and trade could cost families $1,761 a year | Politics and Law - CNET News
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:30 AM
 
4,089 posts, read 4,705,396 times
Reputation: 1251
No worries to the dembots - only rich guys are going to pay taxes in their brave new world.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,386,131 times
Reputation: 454
This is going to crush those that are hanging on by a thread. You know the ones I speak of. They have 2 jobs and are still struggling to make ends meet. They are paying their bills, but have no spare money left over. Hell before long, we all will need 4 jobs and welfare to make it.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:39 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,133,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
This is going to crush those that are hanging on by a thread. You know the ones I speak of. They have 2 jobs and are still struggling to make ends meet. They are paying their bills, but have no spare money left over. Hell before long, we all will need 4 jobs and welfare to make it.
Go Obama! The majority voted for that, right?
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:44 AM
 
39,179 posts, read 40,562,971 times
Reputation: 16065
What needs to be understood about any of these estimates is that as the bill has changed they become obsolete. The $200 billion a year one would be before they scrapped aucting the credits in favor of allocating a lot of them. That's why the CBO reported a much lower estimate that put the cost of the Cap and trade provision at about 2 or 3 hundred per year or somewhere around there. I forget the exact figure and keep in mind that just pertains to the cap and trade costs and doesn't include the entire bill.

But the issue arises now of where the money is going to come from to pay for the other provisions in the bill such as the subsidization of low income families, business and that which would be going to help fund far more expensive renewable energy and technologies like carbon capture for conventional fossil fuel plants.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 39,488,977 times
Reputation: 7107
Here is the letter;

http://www.openmarket.org/wp-content...2009-09-11.PDF

Obama Admin: Cap And Trade Could Cost Families $1,761 A Year - Taking Liberties - CBS News

Notice what was redacted in the document;

Quote:
One odd point: The document written by Jaffee includes this line: "It will raise energy prices and impose annual costs on the order of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX." The Treasury Department redacted the rest of the sentence with a thick black line.

The Freedom of Information Act, of course, contains no this-might-embarrass-the-president exemption (nor, for that matter, should federal agencies be in the business of possibly suppressing dissenting climate change voices). You'd hope the presidential administration that boasts of being the "most open and transparent in history" would be more forthcoming than this.
Cap and Tax - DOA in the Senate.
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Old 09-16-2009, 11:58 AM
 
39,179 posts, read 40,562,971 times
Reputation: 16065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
This is going to crush those that are hanging on by a thread. You know the ones I speak of. They have 2 jobs and are still struggling to make ends meet. They are paying their bills, but have no spare money left over. Hell before long, we all will need 4 jobs and welfare to make it.
Not necessarily, the government already provides assistance to low income people for heating needs through LIHEAP. To the tune of about $5 billion this year the last I checked. That has doubled since 2008. When I was still delivering coal the average family was getting about $300 a year and there was also an emergency assistance program that allowed them to get money if for example they could not pay the bill mid winter and they wouldn't have heat. I'm not sure if that figure is adjusted for cost of the fuel but $300 of coal for the average home was good for half a winter. One good thing about this program is it can't be abused easily, the money goes right to the vendor and they can use it to either credit their account or even apply it to outstanding bills.

As I mentioned above some of the revenue that was to be generated through auctioning the credits was to be used to provide more help to these families.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 66,998,726 times
Reputation: 22370
I keep hoping something this Administration does will seem feasible and in the public interest. But it seems every day, I find something new staring me in the face that flatly is scaring the hell outta me.

The only folks who could feel good about Obama and his policies have to be:

1. On the gubment dole
2. Federal employees
3. Blind followers who refuse to believe they made a mistake putting O in office.
4. Folks who somehow feel they are gonna get a hand-out from this Administration (ACORN types)

Otherwise, how could anyone feel good about all the pork in these bills - and all the crazy regs that are gonna cost us all an arm and a leg (cumulatively) - when our unemployment is sky high?

I DO NOT GET IT.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,314 posts, read 39,488,977 times
Reputation: 7107
Once again, obama has lied.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/1...1761-per-year/

Quote:
Supporters of the administration’s plans for cap-and-trade have argued that the costs would be minimal for American households, as low as $175 per household per year, as the White House proclaimed an incomplete analysis from the CBO.

And they didn’t just lie on the costs to American households for energy-production disincentives. The total cost to the economy would be 1% of GDP, or about the same amount the economy contracted in the second quarter of this year, extended for the foreseeable future. That amounts, in 2009, to $120 billion dollars taken right off the top of the American economy, with the loss of jobs and productivity that entails.
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Old 09-16-2009, 12:59 PM
 
2,659 posts, read 2,568,516 times
Reputation: 366
The trouble with attempting to debate cap and trade is that its rooted in reality and science.

Less than 40% of America accepts evolution.
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