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Old 09-17-2009, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizNJ View Post
Obama is in the process of destroying long time relationships with sound allies, preferring to remake our policies so they'll be "acceptable" to the likes of Russia, Iran and Venezuela. These actions and his blind admiration of the U.N. are truly worrisome.
Long time relationships? What 1-2 decades?
You really might want to look at history.
We are not affecting our relationships with Poland or Czech; and if at all, it's on the political level, not with the citizenry.

I live less than an hour from Czech, listen to Czech news (and Russian news) and don't hear them being as fearful as you.

You complain American citizens suck at the government teat, yet complain when we try to reign in unharnessed and absurd spending on unnecessary and scoffable projects in emerging countries.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,239,057 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by decafdave View Post
That said, I'm opposed to this shield for one reason: why are we still subsidizing the EU's defense? These are European countries and they should be the EU's responsibility to defend. I'm all for missile shields but base them in North America and in ships closer to trouble points.
Hell has frozen over. I agree with the italicized point here.
The US dollar is worth €0.66, yes that's 2/3 of a Euro.

Our economy is in the toilet and we're subsidizing an economy that's significantly stronger than ours.

The missile shield doesn't work, that's been well known for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I tend to agree. The shield had very little value in protecting the USA.
As for NATO. NATO at 1 time was a nessasary alliance that somehow the USA got stuck footing the lion share of the bill for. We did the bull work, we paid the bills and our European allies contributed as little as possible.
Little has changed since NATO's hay day that is for sure. NATO was designed to counter the USSR. The USSR is gone and Russia is a shadow of what it once was. Do we really need NATO? Atleast it we might agree that NATO needs to evolve to reflect the world today.
As long as the US has bases in Europe, we'll be an integral pt of NATO.
I would prefer us leaving Europe,Africa and Asia and let countries care for their own military requirements.
Look at how much more satisfying economic issues would be without us footing the bill for the rest of the world.
In this age, needs of a 50-100 years ago are not particularly relevant.
This is not the same world.

Last edited by chielgirl; 09-17-2009 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,488,465 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Again, I still haven't seen anyone respond to my allegation that RINOs are throwing the founding fathers under the bus for planting bases and missile systems on foreign soil, creating tenuous allegiances our wise founding fathers were so adamantly opposed to.
I will agree with you on that.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:50 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,151 posts, read 15,578,521 times
Reputation: 17139
Irans missile technology is nothing that currently deployed anti missile systems can't handle. I figger if they want to play, we could just introduce them to our Navy, again. They throw a nuke anyones way, on some limp platform, even if it hit's something, we just turn their country into a parking lot. We would not even have to use nuclear payloads. We already know how the Iranian's LOVE the Tomahawk system. I have confidence that our Navy could handle things in that region. No need to spend a ton of dough we don't have to protect the Euros. They have resources of their own. Russia always bears watching, pun intended, though. One must always be careful when cutting deals with them.
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Old 09-17-2009, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Le Grand, Ca
858 posts, read 1,498,982 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Good move. Enough of interventionist foreign policy. We can't afford that anymore.

And next we should list out the bases we are going to close around the world. I'd say 2/3s of them could be closed. We have the technology to kick any one's butts without maintaining bases all over the world.

I don't get the part about throwing our allies under the bus. What the heck is that supposed to mean? We will defend our allies if need be. Even the Saudis have our our word on it.
Pleas explain to me how YOU know that we have the technology to kick anyones ass from here in the US? Please enlighten us...
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
69 posts, read 335,527 times
Reputation: 39
I can't speak for the Poles but the fact is that according to all surveys, the anti-missile shield was opposed by about 65 percents of the Czechs. The impression that we now feel betrayed and "thrown under the bus" is ridiculous. It's being spread by people like Alexander Vondra - Foreign Secretary of the previous Czech administration that was negotiating deployment of the shield with Bush - who once also served as a Czech ambassador in the United States and has a privileged access to english speaking media. He was by far the most hawkish and rusophobic Foreign Secretary we have ever had.
Again, 65% of the Czechs opposed the plan. Obama made these people happy, and yes, he pissed off most of the Czech Right (i.e. MSM and conservative politicians) that was boosting the shield in spite of the opposition of a clear majority of the Czech population.
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Old 09-18-2009, 05:31 AM
 
8,058 posts, read 3,930,277 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
I can't speak for the Poles but the fact is that according to all surveys, the anti-missile shield was opposed by about 65 percents of the Czechs. The impression that we now feel betrayed and "thrown under the bus" is ridiculous. It's being spread by people like Alexander Vondra - Foreign Secretary of the previous Czech administration that was negotiating deployment of the shield with Bush - who once also served as a Czech ambassador in the United States and has a privileged access to english speaking media. He was by far the most hawkish and rusophobic Foreign Secretary we have ever had.
Again, 65% of the Czechs opposed the plan. Obama made these people happy, and yes, he pissed off most of the Czech Right (i.e. MSM and conservative politicians) that was boosting the shield in spite of the opposition of a clear majority of the Czech population.

The majority of Poles were for missile defense - the numbers grew after Russia invaded Georgia.

Tell me, what do you make of the fact Obama announced his plan on the 70th anniversary of the Russian invasion of Poland?
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,184,820 times
Reputation: 6552
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Hell has frozen over. I agree with the italicized point here.
The US dollar is worth €0.66, yes that's 2/3 of a Euro.

Our economy is in the toilet and we're subsidizing an economy that's significantly stronger than ours.

The missile shield doesn't work, that's been well known for years.



As long as the US has bases in Europe, we'll be an integral pt of NATO.
I would prefer us leaving Europe,Africa and Asia and let countries care for their own military requirements.
Look at how much more satisfying economic issues would be without us footing the bill for the rest of the world.
In this age, needs of a 50-100 years ago are not particularly relevant.
This is not the same world.
I would rep you if I could. Well said and exactly correct...
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:07 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,300 posts, read 54,222,946 times
Reputation: 40623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
Tell me, what do you make of the fact Obama announced his plan on the 70th anniversary of the Russian invasion of Poland?

Just another tin-hat wearing conspiracy theory?
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:11 AM
 
8,058 posts, read 3,930,277 times
Reputation: 5343
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Just another tin-hat wearing conspiracy theory?

I'm guessing the Poles still remember the day Russia invaded.

So what is your opinion - was Obama clueless or calculating when he chose this date to announce?
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