Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If we do this, people will go overseas for their boob jobs and other cosmetic surgery needs. Also, how do you keep a doctor from moving away once they're reimbursed for their education, milking the system?
Doctors could agree to sign a contract where they agree to work for x amount of years in exchange for x amount of loan repayment or for every year you work, __% of your student loans are payed off.
I was wondering what the public thinks a physician should make per year. This is not loaded by any means and was just curious. Let's generally break up primary care and specialists, with a specialist being a cardiologist or neurosurgeon. Keep in mind that there is 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and three to nine years of additional training after med school for residency and fellowships. Also the work week is 60-90 hours a week, depending on call sharing and clinic hours. Most of the "no call" docs have 50 hours a week baseline time in the easy jobs.
Any thoughts? Obviously, ZERO is not a reasonable response.
Primary care?
Specialist?
I will check it out tonight- took the day off to watch high school golf. That is my first day off in 6 months.
Socialist thought alert!!
A physician "should" not make any predetermined amount, but rather the most the individual can get for their services in an open market.
If people were "worth" more they could negotiate better compensation. If they can't negotiate a higher pay than they are simply overestimating their value to others.
Nobody can negotiate what they are "worth", because it would erase the profit margin, which is actually labor value stolen off the backs of workers in exchange for return on "capital investment". All workers must be employed at some level below their labor value, which is ACTUALLY what they are worth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
If they say that they produce more value than what they are paid by an employer than they are absolutely right. Businessess would have no incentive to utilize employees if that were not true. Remember it is their choice to be a "tool" of someone else's business though.
Wrong. Those who own no capital assets are forced to be a tool of someone elses business, be it as an employee, or as an "investment vehicle".
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
If they wish to make what the business does they need to start their own business. In other words, to reap the full "value" of their service they need to offer their service to the marketplace and not an employer.
Not only do they need to offer their service to the market place, but they also must be stakeholder free while doing it. That means no bank loans, partners, or other investors hovering over their head. If they have any of these, their labor value will be stolen as interest, dividends, and distributions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
Thinking otherwise, as if they are somehow cheated, is simply not rooted in logic.
They are being cheated. There is no other word for it. Simply because this is the way it goes in capitalism, doesnt make it correct.
Nothing is stolen from employees. They voluntarily choose to work for someone else knowing that they will only receive their worth less the employers take. Don't want to be "stolen" from, simply start your own business.
Nobody is "forced" to work for others. If you can provide a valuable service or product directly to the market you are free to do so. If you choose to simply be a tool of someone else that is your free choice also.
If you need assistance to form a business, be it from banks or investors, they are not "stealing" from you either. Are these people simply alive to help you start a business? No, so they have provided a service to you that you need to repay.
To cheat, one needs to deceive, otherwise it is not cheating. Since you have stated that you are aware of the conditions that you define as "cheating" the obvious answer is self evident as to the charge being false.
*breath*
Nothing is stolen from employees. They voluntarily choose to work for someone else knowing that they will only receive their worth less the employers take. Don't want to be "stolen" from, simply start your own business.
It isnt that simple. Without capital, a person can do little more then sing or do cartwheels on a street corner for money. Since few people have enough vocal ability to pay the bills, a person is forced work for someone who does have capital.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
Nobody is "forced" to work for others.
Youre right, if they lack capital, they can also steal, or starve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
If you can provide a valuable service or product directly to the market you are free to do so.
Few services and NO products are created without capital. How does one obtain capital if they arent born with it? If you guessed, "bring on stakeholders" you are correct. In turn, stakeholders steal your labor value in exchange for their "capital investment".
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
If you choose to simply be a tool of someone else that is your free choice also.
Not really. Starving and stealing arent very good options. So most people take option 3, become a puppet of a capital owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
If you need assistance to form a business, be it from banks or investors, they are not "stealing" from you either. Are these people simply alive to help you start a business? No, so they have provided a service to you that you need to repay.
Banks and investors are NO different then a "boss man". They are stealing your labor value for the priveledge of using their capital. Banks and investors arent providing a "service" they are providing the borrowing of their money. That isnt a service. The action of them handing you money is worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow
To cheat, one needs to deceive, otherwise it is not cheating. Since you have stated that you are aware of the conditions that you define as "cheating" the obvious answer is self evident as to the charge being false.
Just because a person is forced under economic duress to accept the terms of the labor contract, does not make it any less nefarious.
I'm sure doctors from other countries will gladly come to the United States to work for less, which will be more for them, just as they have done in Britain; don't expect to understand them very well of course and who knows how they got their license to practice medicine.
Somehow, I don't think there will be many pre-med students wanting to devote half their working life to school and internship before they can practice if they will be working for a fixed amount. I wonder if they will still be sued for malpractice on top of that?
Actually, it would be great if our beloved leader could get a law passed saying that everything that anyone earned above minimum wage should be turned over to the government for redistribution.
Any lib who makes more than minimum wage should be ashamed of himself.
A physician "should" not make any predetermined amount, but rather the most the individual can get for their services in an open market.
Capitalist pig!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
