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Nobody can negotiate what they are "worth", because it would erase the profit margin, which is actually labor value stolen off the backs of workers in exchange for return on "capital investment". All workers must be employed at some level below their labor value, which is ACTUALLY what they are worth.
Worth is in the eye of the beholder. (e.g. My life is worth a lot to me, but it might not be worth much to you.)
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Originally Posted by Randomdude
Wrong. Those who own no capital assets are forced to be a tool of someone elses business, be it as an employee, or as an "investment vehicle".
I think what he meant was, the employees are in most cases free to shop around for new employment. People do this all the time when they feel like they're no longer being paid what they're worth. Otherwise, we'd all still have our fry cook jobs from back in high school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
They are being cheated. There is no other word for it. Simply because this is the way it goes in capitalism, doesnt make it correct.
They're not being cheated except by the regulations our government has in place that make it harder for small businesses to compete with the big boys.
Banks and investors are NO different then a "boss man". They are stealing your labor value for the priveledge of using their capital. Banks and investors arent providing a "service" they are providing the borrowing of their money. That isnt a service. The action of them handing you money is worthless.
Just because a person is forced under economic duress to accept the terms of the labor contract, does not make it any less nefarious.
The banks accept the risk that you won't repay the loan. That's what they're putting on the line.
I have a friend who owns a multi-million dollar business. He had an idea, apparently a good one, and started it with $50 of his own cash and a small loan. Not only did hepay the money back with interest (well worth it in his mind), but he now lives very comfortably and employs a number of people, paying them a good, though modest, wage for the area...an area with 10%+ percent unemployement right now. Are you suggesting that his employees have been cheated by him, because he pockets the lion's share of the profit? In terms of employment, do you think the town would be better off if he relocated his business?
So actors and athletes should be paid millions to basically play while Drs who actually work and had intensive training should be capped?
As soon as hospitals can convince 100,000 people to pay $60 bucks to show up on Sunday to watch an appendix removal doctors can make as much as sports players.
This is a disingenuous response. Physicians can invest their money just like any other American. They take chances just like any other American. They are not guarateed a certain return on investment just because they are doctors. So it's false to assume that all doctors make a lot of money on the side through investments. I'm a physician and I invest.....FOR MY RETIREMENT just like every other American. I'm not investing money to make money to spend on sports cars. Just like any other American, there are doctors who make a lot of money investing and there are others who lost their savings
People that work in white collar business jobs are not spending 4 years in grad school, 5 years in residency, and take state licensing exams every 7 years to remain board certificed. White collar business people also don't pay malpractice insurance. There is no University of Phoenix on-line medical degree. Medical school is 4 years not 2 years like MBA programs. And MBA school is a joke compared to medical school, we actually have to study and take real exams. We don't get to do group projects and presentations for a grade.
We CPA's had to pass a pretty tough test or four ourselves. That aside, I agree with you.
I'm sure doctors from other countries will gladly come to the United States to work for less, which will be more for them, just as they have done in Britain; don't expect to understand them very well of course and who knows how they got their license to practice medicine.
The medical education requirements in this country are the most strict. In other countries, they have several advantages
1. They get to start medical school early. In the U.S., we start college when Europeans/Indians start graduate school. They call it "medical college" The reason is they have no middle school there. They go straight to high school when they are 13 or 14 and start medical school when they are 17-18.
2. Their residency requirements are significantly reduced with regard to the number of years of training
3. They are not required to take 3 licensing exams and then a state board exam to become licensed to practice. They also don't have to retake the boards every 7 years to maintain their board certification.
4. With regard to #3, there are many foreign doctors who try to come and practice in the United States but they can't pass the United States Medical Licensing Exam (U.S.M.L.E.) It consists of 4 exams. 3 of them are written/multiple choice and one component includes history/physical component. There are thousands of these people that fail each year. It's a rigorous exam. This helps ensure the quality of physicians practicing in this country.
5. Their govt usually pays 100% of their tuition
6. They don't pay malpractice fees. I pay 60K per year in malpractice fees. Some surgeons I know pay 100K +
So actors and athletes should be paid millions to basically play while Drs who actually work and had intensive training should be capped?
I believe every profession should be capped.
However, when looking at it from a purely capitalist standpoint, Doctors provide a neccessary service, athletes do not. People voluntarily pay for athletics and the consequence of not paying for a ticket is simply not seeing the game live. The consequence for not paying for healthcare could be death.
Medicine should NEVER ever be for profit. Its a rediculous concept, and a big reason we have such embarrassing numbers for live childbirths and deaths from preventable or curable illness/disease.
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