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Old 09-18-2009, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Northwest
2,027 posts, read 4,088,035 times
Reputation: 2590

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so why should Obama stick with the more expensive Bush plan when that was about long range missiles?

Also the people ( different than the politicians ) didn't want the missile shield on their land because they knew Russia would get pissed and deploy short-range missiles to the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad
near Poland.

(We kids play war video games and strategy games so it made sense to us )

What I'm surprised at is that smart people in the Repub party don't say
wait a minute... Bush & Cheney LIED to us about this WMD thing and
some good repub boys and gals were killed over it. Why should we trust anything those fools in our party did before?

oh since yall like links hold on a minute...

ok this is from the WSJ

Sea-Based Missiles to Target a Redefined Threat
Sea-Based Missiles to Target a Redefined Threat - WSJ.com


Below is a slideshow

U.S. Missile U-Turn Roils Allies - WSJ.com


I already knew that the people had protested against USA defense missile shields in their country because Russia would then put stuff closer to Poland, but I'm surprised the grown-ups around here would go against U.S. Intelligence which isn't about political parties is it?

It's like other countries listening to USA politicians only but have no idea what the grass root people think or feel about the issue.

well I might just be a teenager but I hope I got some grownups to
either think about what you're parroting off the tv station or try to
explain your viewpoint that considers some of these points I raised so
I can learn something instead of screaming and hollering.

Thanks!

RFSilver
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Northwest
2,027 posts, read 4,088,035 times
Reputation: 2590
Default A sudden weirdness

Hey I just had a scary thought as I was falling asleep after honoring
the Statue of Liberty in my own special way and singing a song
I think appropiate of patriotism...

Politicians (Repub) KNOW what the Intel report said and yet...
They couldn't be secretly representing the interests of another
government could they? Because bottomline thats whats happening.

If you know what your own INTEL is advising... and that the plan
of what Bush wanted, the people of that country didn't want...
and that it would have taken 7 years to set it up anyway...

Plus today is the day of Lehman downfall isn't it?... you're not
going against Obama... you're going against US Intel and that's
weird... using Obama as a smoke screen to really attack
something else.

ok maybe this is teenage paranoia raining down on my head so
I'm going back to bed. Just all a sudden it felt strange...


I would feel better if the Repub politicians will go on Fox News and
explain why they disagree with the US Intel assessment regarding
the situation upon which Obama's decision was based.

I may be a kid, but I am not stupid. I want them to justify standing
against US Intel by providing their OWN Intel. If Repub is going to become
a thinking party again, they must think and stop being mouth pieces for
anybody who shows a Repub button and toots a horn.




RFSilver
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:10 AM
 
3,151 posts, read 2,833,600 times
Reputation: 1073
Right...all of a sudden Obama is concerned about spending money???? But ok to send millions of tax dollars for Murtha's Airport..what a hypocrite...
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Northwest
2,027 posts, read 4,088,035 times
Reputation: 2590
HUH???

That's your response? ::sighs::
I don't know why I expect better from grown ups.

Ok I am going back to bed.

RFSilver
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:51 AM
 
3,568 posts, read 2,943,814 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFSilver View Post
so why should Obama stick with the more expensive Bush plan when that was about long range missiles?

Also the people ( different than the politicians ) didn't want the missile shield on their land because they knew Russia would get pissed and deploy short-range missiles to the Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad
near Poland.

(We kids play war video games and strategy games so it made sense to us )

What I'm surprised at is that smart people in the Repub party don't say
wait a minute... Bush & Cheney LIED to us about this WMD thing and
some good repub boys and gals were killed over it. Why should we trust anything those fools in our party did before?

oh since yall like links hold on a minute...

ok this is from the WSJ

Sea-Based Missiles to Target a Redefined Threat
Sea-Based Missiles to Target a Redefined Threat - WSJ.com


Below is a slideshow

U.S. Missile U-Turn Roils Allies - WSJ.com


I already knew that the people had protested against USA defense missile shields in their country because Russia would then put stuff closer to Poland, but I'm surprised the grown-ups around here would go against U.S. Intelligence which isn't about political parties is it?

It's like other countries listening to USA politicians only but have no idea what the grass root people think or feel about the issue.

well I might just be a teenager but I hope I got some grownups to
either think about what you're parroting off the tv station or try to
explain your viewpoint that considers some of these points I raised so
I can learn something instead of screaming and hollering.

Thanks!

RFSilver
You know what's interesting? Even before he was inaugurated Obama was signaling that he would reverse course on the missile defense shield to be stationed in Poland and the Czech Republic. How convenient that "new intelligence" now supports that pre-determined outcome! Maybe Congress should convene an investigation to determine whether the Obama administration has cooked the intelligence and whether intelligence people were coerced into making findings that supported the administration's agenda.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:53 AM
 
2,897 posts, read 19,636,608 times
Reputation: 4571
RFSilver, you bring up very valid concerns. If more Republicans listened to the youth, instead of their egos, maybe the Republican party can become a force to be reckoned with. Why shouldn't Republicans insist that Republican politicians become accountable by voicing substantial, factual objections.

Keep on thinking and if you're really bothered by something, RFSilver, post it.

Many of us did not grow up in an age of video war games and strategy so thoughts that would seem evident or natural to a kid who has played video war games are unnatural for us. I want you to know you have stopped this adult in her tracks, and I am seriously considering the points you raised.

Thank you.

P.S. What makes me feel uncomfortable is that the Republican party could easily find itself unknowingly participating in anti-American-like activities (the people, not the politicians... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...)

The lack of review of the Lehman debacle when we are known to love anniversaries, of any and every kind, is telling, indeed.

I don't want to find myself participating in any activities that stand against U.S. Intelligence gathering. You have to draw the line somewhere.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: in Music Forum w/feeling or Metal
2,051 posts, read 8,836,058 times
Reputation: 5048
Default RFSilver... shall try to help you tho ill at the moment

RFSilver ... smile ... Forgive my way of speaking. I'm not
well but seek to address your concerns. I will be direct.

very good to ask questions and present concerns. Also very
good to take the broadest observational view possible. Do not
depend on a single outlet and do not ever use American TV to
substantiate your views. It is better to be free of it for now.

Use international papers, radios outlets etc. outside the U.S.
and follow your own curiosity. Once you have formulated your
own views then return to the TV set.

Might I interest you in a limited fashion, on some background information.

Before we start, you are correct that Czechs (populace)
especially feared becoming a terrorist target in accepting any
form of an American Missile Defense.

:: ponders how to speak carefully::

You are concerned about the New World Order in general and
have accepted its... probability, eventuality. We will start with
this basis of belief.

Let's project 10-20 years from that view...

Have you considered what then would be it's military arm?
...what it's Global Defense Missile System would look like?...
and who would be in control of such a system?

This is Russia's present day concern I tell you directly. It is the crux...

Russia is concerned with America's... courting her previous
Soviet Satellite States.

You enjoy war strategy do you not? :: smile :: let's begin...

First read this...

:: piling on books and links, slight smile ::

You can decide right now to become an original thinker
or wait til a think tank tells you what to think... for now
let's try to find a source free of political spin...

Russians See U.S. Missile Defense in Poland Posing Nuclear Threat - Council on Foreign Relations

And some background...

Russia’s Beef with Regional Arms Control - Council on Foreign Relations

I will also give you a name to investigate...

:: scribbles on paper and hand to you ::

Riki Ellison ... a very powerful lobbyist who promotes missile
defense systems to...

:: changes mind :::

... let's see what you discover on your own... smile

:: closes book and prepares to leave ::

I only do this to show you that some adults respect
youthful sincerity and if you wish later, we can discuss
whether it answers or raises questions. I am interested
in your thoughts.


You are right to ask from the leadership their reasons for
going against US Intel
... that in itself would be... revealing.

Youth are asking to be answered to as responsible
citizens and not to be dictated to. A politician is meant
to be your public servant or shall it always be the other
way around....

Am sick so will quickly add...

Also track who write the articles for AP etc that most interest you...

Ignore or put in a special category any AP etc post that gives
no name... get a name or bypass it. You've read the book
An Expensive Education by now and so understand why.

Good Job


MMC

`
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Old 09-18-2009, 06:59 PM
 
2,897 posts, read 19,636,608 times
Reputation: 4571
Thank you, Mr. MMC, for the links that you provided. They gave much information from opposite perspectives and allowed me to see relations between the U.S. and Russia as I had never seen them before.

I had never thought of the question concerning a global missile defense system for my focus had always been primarily economic. I have thought about this thread all day and its implications.

Jim/RFSilver, thank you for giving us adults a chance and not writing us off as screaming, uncaring maniacs. I for one might not have been able to answer your questions, but as a result of you posing your observations and point of view, Mr. MMC could come forward with links that benefit us all. It feels so good to think on an international level again, even if the answers break my heart.

You know the failure of the party is not just the leaders leading the party but the followers not asking out of ourselves and our leaders the best that we can be and do. <grows quiet thinking>

Thank you.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:40 PM
 
48,526 posts, read 74,858,649 times
Reputation: 17810
What I find strange is that the same people who disagreed now agree including gates. Very suspicious to me at the least.I really have to decide if they really think this or are towing the line or think we are now in such economic starights we can afford anything more.I have been waiting for the democrats tyo go after the military budget as they always do and not for the same reasons.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:49 PM
 
946 posts, read 2,001,091 times
Reputation: 476
This debate is framed with a "when did you stop beating your wife" approach. All the positions of our government are that Iran is a threat to America. What if Iran's missiles are not a threat to the US at all? Any use on their part would lead to immediate and devastating retaliation on our part. We assisted our old ally Saddam with satellite intelligence of Iranian troop concentrations, which he used to deliver his WMDs with deadlier effect. The level of mistrust and perception of threat is a valid one from the Iranian perspective, one that has been backed up by our violent actions towards them and other countries. On our side, Iran has not attacked another country in centuries (with the exception of artillery strikes against Kurdish separtists in Turkey) and has a defense budget smaller than Mexico's, which is less than 1% of what America spends on our military every year. To assert that Iran is a peer competitor of America, and poses an actual danger to our existence as a country, is folly of the highest order. Either our leaders are truly delusional, or the various political parties seek political advantages by bandying Iranian threat assessments. Our two parties have a long history of one-upmanship, to the detriment of our foreign policy and international relations.
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