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Old 09-18-2009, 04:06 PM
 
323 posts, read 502,940 times
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YouTube - The American Form of Government
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,279,569 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikMartinsen View Post
So simple a government apologist can understand it. Not agree with it, but understand it.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:17 PM
 
624 posts, read 1,071,773 times
Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by city414 View Post
Elaborate..this country was founded on both ideas having one w/o the other will not work
Depends on what you mean by liberalism. Liberalism today does not let you have a democracy, unless you are a terrorist, a criminal, tax cheat, illegal immigrant, etc...

If you fall into one of those categories, then you have rights. If not, then you are un-american.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Nashville
841 posts, read 2,260,812 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMe View Post
Don't confuse liberalism--the founding ideal of the country--with what passes for liberalism today. The original liberals--Locke, Hobbs, Montesquieu, Rousseau--would have nothing to do with the "liberals" of today. The Founding Fathers were steeped in the ideas of Locke and co. At bottom liberalism represented the impulse of the indvidual for liberty and pitted that individual against the state--as represented by the crown. Recognizing the need for government the Founders nevertheless sought to maximize indvidual liberty by circumscribing the power of the state. Thus the federal system and separation of powers and the Bill of Rights. Today's liberals, by contrast, seek to enhance the power of the state over the individual through taxation and regulation. In the guise of helping people government amasses more and more power, turning us into wards of the state itself. In effect the liberalism of today is a form of soft tyranny. A good analogy is the soft tyranny of the parent. At some point a person has to choose between chaffing at the soft tyranny of the parental abode and the freedom that is his or her birthright as an adult. People, it's past time to be adults.
Although, there's some truth too your post about the then "radical Classic Liberalism", which today is formally known as Libertarianism; you could easily make the same case that Modern liberalism in U.S. is just as revolutionary idea compared to its passé orgin. When people make comments such as, "Liberalism today is a form of soft tranny", you do a great injustice to individuals like Mills and Locke, because by you assume their minds are stagnate. Remember that these Liberal Pioneers, did not experience the full fledged industrial revolution that swept the world in the 19th Century. Would there perception be different if they witnessed the monopolies of commerce and injustices of social stratification? Maybe, maybe not. The point being, is that this state has a liberal orgin or as you Americans formally know it-- Libertarian orgin. Yet, if you assume that this state has a Conservative, Christian, Theorcratic orgin, then I storngly suggest you stay away from this discussion.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,279,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KARL_MARX View Post
Although, there's some truth too your post about the then "radical Classic Liberalism", which today is formally known as Libertarianism; you could easily make the same case that Modern liberalism in U.S. is just as revolutionary idea compared to its passé orgin. When people make comments such as, "Liberalism today is a form of soft tranny", you do a great injustice to individuals like Mills and Locke, because by you assume their minds are stagnate. Remember that these Liberal Pioneers, did not experience the full fledged industrial revolution that swept the world in the 19th Century. Would there perception be different if they witnessed the monopolies of commerce and injustices of social stratification? Maybe, maybe not. The point being, is that this state has a liberal orgin or as you Americans formally know it-- Libertarian orgin. Yet, if you assume that this state has a Conservative, Christian, Theorcratic orgin, then I storngly suggest you stay away from this discussion.
Everythng you've provided is just a convenient excuse to welcome more government intervention. It is an insult to folks like Locke to even believe for a second they would ever condone theft through onerous levels of taxation.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:24 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,040,586 times
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Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Not quit the same.. A Democracy means majority rules, a Representative Republic means that even the minority has a voice.
And folks laugh at kids for failing a civic test?
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,878 posts, read 2,064,028 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by city414 View Post
Elaborate..this country was founded on both ideas having one w/o the other will not work
You are absolutely correct, we need to incorporate all interests within reason. The issue here IMHO is not about true liberalism, it's about true radicalism. I personally support many liberal ideas, just not radical ways to carry them out.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Nashville
841 posts, read 2,260,812 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Everythng you've provided is just a convenient excuse to welcome more government intervention. It is an insult to folks like Locke to even believe for a second they would ever condone theft through onerous levels of taxation.
You're quite comical. Obviously you know nothing of Lockean Philosophy or for that matter that historical forces influencing the Englishman. I suggest you actually read, Two Treatises of Government, before you so idiotically claim to be an authority on Liberalism or for that matter Political Theory
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,301,605 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city414 View Post
Elaborate..this country was founded on both ideas having one w/o the other will not work
We are not a democracy. We are a Representative Republic. "Liberalism" in the modern sense of the term, is anathama to a Representative Republic. To survive, you must not allow liberalism a foothold. That is the source of our problems today. We have forgotten our roots.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:29 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,040,586 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOrocks17 View Post
Thats kida like saying you cant have affirmative action without racism...
You got one right!

Although I doubt that you know why.
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