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Old 09-20-2009, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,263,181 times
Reputation: 3310

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Some say that the straw that broke the camel's back was the Bork hearings. But I don;t see politics as divorced from the rest of society. Ugliness, narcissism, corporatism, and "willful" ignorance has been steadily on the rise since 1980.

Before then, the economic malaise of oil and stagflation, Vietnam, the dead-seriousness of the Cold War, Korea, World War II, the Depression...these all kept the feet on the ground and provided many decades to absorb into our national identity the tens of millions of immigrants who came in the early 20th century.

Now there is now bogeyman but that which we see in the mirror. Our society was build from bits and parts from war-ravaged nations and from war itself. Now that both are gone, we are a basket case in need of rejuvenation, not European style-socialism and not an older European-style religiosity, but just a return to the founding of this country and the principles that built our most basic institutions.

It is very easy to discuss what to do. It is a whole other world to discuss and decide what not to do or what we should no longer do. Dismantling is missing from vocabularies even when the necessity for certain government apparati is clearly past due.

S.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:42 AM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,829 posts, read 6,911,794 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
The last 30+ years have been a disgrace to our Founding Fathers. How about we get back to our Enlightenment ideals before vast areas of America reach a permanent plateau of 20%+ unemployment and negative growth in personal wealth.

The road to recovery starts with the vast majority of sleezebags on both sides of the aisle putting America first over kowtowing, fawning, emulation and self-righteousness mudslinging.

S.
Absolutely and the answer is blowoutcongress.com.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,829 posts, read 6,911,794 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Amen Brutha!

But good luck on getting the partisans to agree. They have become so 'high' on playing t*t for tat and excusing their party of every sort of wrongdoing that I doubt they are able to distinquish right and wrong anymore even privately. Of course it doesn't help that the the reps and dems eat this division up and propagate it to the best of their abilities. Our public servents serve themselves, and yet so many people will not admit it for fear of their party 'losing face'. Until all people - even the partisan blowhards - are unified in holding all politicians culpable then nothing will ever change.
Amen, amen, amen!
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Irvine, CA to Keller, TX
4,829 posts, read 6,911,794 times
Reputation: 844
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressageGirl View Post
Good points! I wish we could recognize that we can disagree but that it doesn't have to get ugly. I can respect that people have differing opinions from me but get on the defensive when people make comments to me like "keep on drinking the coolaid", "soandso is out to destroy America", etc. If people have to resort to those kinds of statements, well their arguement must not be very good!

My question is, do you think it is worse today than it has been or has it always been this bad. I'm 35 and over the last 15 years I've become increasingly interested in politics. The nastiness was bad with Clinton, Bush, and now Obama, so those of you that are older than that, was it this bad before then?
I am 53 and it has been bad for as long as I can remember. It has got much worse in the last several administrations which I blame on the media whores.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Keonsha, Wisconsin
2,479 posts, read 3,226,948 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
The last 30+ years have been a disgrace to our Founding Fathers. How about we get back to our Enlightenment ideals before vast areas of America reach a permanent plateau of 20%+ unemployment and negative growth in personal wealth.

The road to recovery starts with the vast majority of sleezebags on both sides of the aisle putting America first over kowtowing, fawning, emulation and self-righteousness mudslinging.

S.
Don't you have the wires switched on this? It's the conservatives who can't let it lie down. The party of NO and LIES. Liberals want what's best for Americans, while conservatives want to fight, cause trouble, and coddle corporate greed.
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Old 09-20-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,262,829 times
Reputation: 49247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57 View Post
Don't you have the wires switched on this? It's the conservatives who can't let it lie down. The party of NO and LIES. Liberals want what's best for Americans, while conservatives want to fight, cause trouble, and coddle corporate greed.
and a case in point would be?

Both sides do their share, when will you accept that? Both sides thing they are right and media plays into their hands, depending on what media you pay attention to..

You have the conservatives that want to return to no new taxes unless they are absolutely necessary, who want people living in our country to speak English and be here legally, and they believe in the free marketplace. I could have sworn that is part of what our country was founded on.

You have the libs, like you, who believe we need to support everyone whether they work or not, we could be make sure everyone on welfare get his/her fair share at a high costs to those who work for a living, you think illegals are people to feel sorry for and you think government should control our lives.

You continue to blame the conservatives, I will continue to believe it them.

Nita
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Old 09-20-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Keonsha, Wisconsin
2,479 posts, read 3,226,948 times
Reputation: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
and a case in point would be?

Both sides do their share, when will you accept that? Both sides thing they are right and media plays into their hands, depending on what media you pay attention to..

You have the conservatives that want to return to no new taxes unless they are absolutely necessary, who want people living in our country to speak English and be here legally, and they believe in the free marketplace. I could have sworn that is part of what our country was founded on.

You have the libs, like you, who believe we need to support everyone whether they work or not, we could be make sure everyone on welfare get his/her fair share at a high costs to those who work for a living, you think illegals are people to feel sorry for and you think government should control our lives.

You continue to blame the conservatives, I will continue to believe it them.

Nita
Bush 41, "read my lips, no new taxes". Unless of course bush 41 was really a liberal masquerading as a conservative, just to get elected?

Bush 43, 2 wars, financial conservacy irresponsiblity, enlarged government, lied about WMD's in Iraq, Sold public use lands for pennies on the dollar (national treasures), the list goes on about his failed policies.

I could go back as far a reagan, or dwight d. eisenhower (enlarged the social security program)

So, really, conservatives are not all what they're cracked up to be, or, supposed to be. Sometimes I wished republicans would stop associating themselves with conservatives, because some are really not at all.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,318,490 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
But those on the right consider it their god-given right to be mudslingers! They celebrate it, they actually celebrate their rudeness. I've read the comments made by the friends of one of our most conservative posters here on C-D and they write like cheerleaders egging this poster on to "make them squirm" (for example). There's no solution in that! They only want to WIN their argument, not actually solve the problem. They love attacking people, they love finding enemies to blame. They attack people rather than ideas and that's the main reason we are in this mess.

The left thinks collectively, while the right puts on blinders and cannot see past its own backyard. Until the right can actually expand its awareness to include those NOT like themselves, our problems will persist.

To add...I don't support many liberal ideas and I don't support many conservative ideas. Most people are indeed like myself, stuck in the middle somewhere not being heard at all.
I agree with your first paragraph, but not the rest. I don't think "the left" has any corner on virtuousness and/or vice versa.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:41 PM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,606,756 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57 View Post
Bush 41, "read my lips, no new taxes". Unless of course bush 41 was really a liberal masquerading as a conservative, just to get elected?

Bush 43, 2 wars, financial conservacy irresponsiblity, enlarged government, lied about WMD's in Iraq, Sold public use lands for pennies on the dollar (national treasures), the list goes on about his failed policies.

I could go back as far a reagan, or dwight d. eisenhower (enlarged the social security program)

So, really, conservatives are not all what they're cracked up to be, or, supposed to be. Sometimes I wished republicans would stop associating themselves with conservatives, because some are really not at all.

That makes absolutely no sense - all you have accomplished is shown yourself to be a partisan who cannot or willnot see their own parties culpability in the current mess we are in. As long as there are people who refuse to hold their own accountable then nothing will ever change.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,330,086 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post

You have the libs, like you, who believe we need to support everyone whether they work or not, we could be make sure everyone on welfare get his/her fair share at a high costs to those who work for a living, you think illegals are people to feel sorry for and you think government should control our lives.

You continue to blame the conservatives, I will continue to believe it them.

Nita
Liberals/Progressives don't all think alike or support the same things and we don't have corporate cheerleaders egging us on and telling us what to think and say.
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