will we have to have a draft (lawyers, military, politicians)
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What is your problem with voluntary military service? I can understand about being against a draft.....but how can you be against people volunteering to join the military?
Because there are economic pressures to do so not felt by richer kids.
As in UNFAIR-why so hard to understand?
I was in the Air Force, and luckily my enlistment ended in June of 2001. I was worried I'd be called in with the reserves, but I lucked out.
Trust me, I know a lot of people still in, most of the kids joining the Air Force today, are just poor folks who couldn't get a job, or a college education any other way.
The large majority of kids I knew when I went in, went in for the GI Bill, and other college assistance.
I knew one guy, one out of my entire time who came from a wealthy family. The only reason he joined was because everyone in his family had to serve 4 years in one branch or another.
It doesn't make sense that rich kids would volunteer. What are the reasons for signing up? Money, I think not. Education, yeah, but if its already taken care of by Mom and Dad, you've got nothing to worry about. Sense of service, yeah, but you'd be surprised at the low number of people who actually feel that way.
I'm with you on this. I served in the Army Paratroopers and I can assure you that the VAST majority of kids in my unit were coming from very poor, often rural or inner city families. We had one guy that came from what everyone considered a "rich" family. His dad was a stockbroker and probably earned around $90k a year.
The enlisted people in the military are almost always poor or lower middle class. There are very few wealthy people in the service. It's just a fact.
As one of those "privileged elite officers", I'll call BS on this post. Every front line unit is commanded by one of more officers. Officer share the same risks and privations as their enlisted soldiers and sailors.
I was in the Navy so I can't speak from direct experience, but it's my understanding from talking to retire Army and Marine "Elite Officers" that today's infantry is much more made up of middle class soldiers than the cannon fodder that was drafted during the earlier wars.
Incidently, one of those "Elite Marine Officers" wears a collostomy bag he picked up on the front line. He won the Navy Cross for repeatedly going into fire to rescue his men from enemy fire. I think he'd be glad to trade the medal for a complete digestive tract, but the military doesn't do that for you.
People who never served really should keep their mouths shut. They would avoid having both feet in up to their knees.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Officers like you are exactly why I got out of the service in the first place. After 8 years in the 82nd Airborne as an infantryman, I had had enough of stupid 2LT's pretending to be in charge.
As for your comment regarding officers suffering the same risks and privations as their enlisted troops, I call BS! I was in Recon during the war and My LT NEVER WENT ON PATROL with our teams. Not one time. It's no different in the regular infantry companies either. The line officers hang back with their radioman. The only way an officer gets hit is because they ran over an IED. It's the E-1 through E-6's that take all the risks in combat. We are the ones who kick the doors in and pull the bodies out of the streets when our men get hit. Our officers are too busy on the radio trying to sound like heroes so they can get the CO to give them a medal. Officers share the risks... Bull, they follow their NCO's so they don't get hurt.
Most officers barely know the men they command. So the fact that your other officer friends think that all their troops are middle class is just a reflection of how completely out of touch they are with their troops. I can tell you without hesitation that almost every guy in my platoon (except our snot-nosed LT) was coming from a poor or lower middle class home.
By the way, I got out and used the GI Bill to finish college and grad school and as much as I loved the Army, I can assure you that my kid will never wear a uniform.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Officers like you are exactly why I got out of the service in the first place. After 8 years in the 82nd Airborne as an infantryman, I had had enough of stupid 2LT's pretending to be in charge.
As for your comment regarding officers suffering the same risks and privations as their enlisted troops, I call BS! I was in Recon during the war and My LT NEVER WENT ON PATROL with our teams. Not one time. It's no different in the regular infantry companies either. The line officers hang back with their radioman. The only way an officer gets hit is because they ran over an IED. It's the E-1 through E-6's that take all the risks in combat. We are the ones who kick the doors in and pull the bodies out of the streets when our men get hit. Our officers are too busy on the radio trying to sound like heroes so they can get the CO to give them a medal. Officers share the risks... Bull, they follow their NCO's so they don't get hurt.
Most officers barely know the men they command. So the fact that your other officer friends think that all their troops are middle class is just a reflection of how completely out of touch they are with their troops. I can tell you without hesitation that almost every guy in my platoon (except our snot-nosed LT) was coming from a poor or lower middle class home.
By the way, I got out and used the GI Bill to finish college and grad school and as much as I loved the Army, I can assure you that my kid will never wear a uniform.
As is always the case,
The only good officers, are those that worked their way up from enlisted men and women.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Officers like you are exactly why I got out of the service in the first place. After 8 years in the 82nd Airborne as an infantryman, I had had enough of stupid 2LT's pretending to be in charge.
As for your comment regarding officers suffering the same risks and privations as their enlisted troops, I call BS! I was in Recon during the war and My LT NEVER WENT ON PATROL with our teams. Not one time. It's no different in the regular infantry companies either. The line officers hang back with their radioman. The only way an officer gets hit is because they ran over an IED. It's the E-1 through E-6's that take all the risks in combat. We are the ones who kick the doors in and pull the bodies out of the streets when our men get hit. Our officers are too busy on the radio trying to sound like heroes so they can get the CO to give them a medal. Officers share the risks... Bull, they follow their NCO's so they don't get hurt.
Most officers barely know the men they command. So the fact that your other officer friends think that all their troops are middle class is just a reflection of how completely out of touch they are with their troops. I can tell you without hesitation that almost every guy in my platoon (except our snot-nosed LT) was coming from a poor or lower middle class home.
By the way, I got out and used the GI Bill to finish college and grad school and as much as I loved the Army, I can assure you that my kid will never wear a uniform.
I may not have served but I've treated enough soldiers to know that the people serving in these wars consist mostly of the working class and poor. I have enough respect not to call past soliders who have died as "canon fodder." You still haven't apologized for those comments. That shows your level of respect for our troops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch
You were never in the military.
I know you like to argue but show some respect. I think you know Spot is an honored veteran. There is no need of accusing him of never having served. Any intelligent person who read his post knows he didn't make that up.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 09-24-2009 at 04:56 PM..
Right... I did basic, 11B AIT at Benning on the Hill. Then jump school. Then went to Bragg. Got assigned to 3rd Platoon, A Company 2/325 AIR, 82nd ABN. About six months later I volunteered for battalion scouts. Went through selection, got picked. Then I was sent to Iraq as a member of HHC Recon 2/325 AIR. Spent a year there. Came back, made E-5, went to 1/325 AIR as a squad Leader in 1st platoon, B Company. Got deployed again. I could go into detail about infantry tactics, or weapons systems, but then we both know you wouldn't understand...
Listen up leg, just because you're a navy blackshoe officer who never had the sack to go do something challenging like BUD/S or EOD, don't accuse me of not serving. I spent a couple of weeks cross training with a marine expeditionary force and I have to say I saw some of the roundest bellies I have ever seen wearing Navy uniforms. I can't tell you how many times I fell asleep shaking from the cold wishing I had 3 hots and a cot. Navy life must be nice...
The only good officers, are those that worked their way up from enlisted men and women.
Largely true, The ONLY good officer I had in 11 yrs was a Capt. who was a graduate of Carelton College,its most unusual to see one who is a grad of elite liberal arts college,which BTW is about only place left where you're liable to get a decent education.
[quote=rlchurch;10900110]As one of those "privileged elite officers", I'll call BS on this post. Every front line unit is commanded by one of more officers. Officer share the same risks and privations as their enlisted soldiers and sailors.
I was in the Navy so I can't speak from direct experience, but it's my understanding from talking to retire Army and Marine "Elite Officers" that today's infantry is much more made up of middle class soldiers than the cannon fodder that was drafted during the earlier wars. Quote
Correct you were in the Navy , where poverty stricken Phillipino stewards are recruited to shine officers shoes, and cant speak fron expeirence.
My expierence, as a Platoon Sgt. in Vietnam, was that when the Lt. didn't
show up as we headed out, intel showed we were in for an ambush.
Awhile back, the head of the draft board was on the radio.
He stated --if- the draft was needed in the future, there would be no exemptions.
A pre-determined age would be used and every month there would be a lottery of people at that age . The number called would be based on needs.
Your name would only be in the lottery that month and if not called you would never be called again.
No doubt thats what he SAID, if you think that rich kids wont get one I have several bridges for sale you would love.
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