Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yeah...she can pay us back too (and court costs if she's proven wrong). That's what the military should do with these people. If people decide they want to just not show up, leave, not deploy, get out, etc., they should just get a OTH of Dishonorable and a big freakin' bill. Put them on a list and garnish their wages for as long as it takes. If they don't pay, issue a warrant for their arrest (ala child support) and throw them in jail on a pay or sit type of scenario.
It has been almost three years since Watada became the first commissioned officer to publicly refuse to go to Iraq. His decision was not that of a conscientious objector opposed to war in general, but of an officer who felt that participating in the Iraq war was akin to committing a crime. After being denied a resignation from the US army, Watada refused to deploy to Iraq in June 2006 due to his belief that the war violated international and US constitutional laws.
"It is my conclusion as an officer of the Armed Forces that the war in Iraq is not only morally wrong but a horrible breach of American law ... As the order to take part in an illegal act is ultimately unlawful as well, I must as an officer of honor and integrity refuse that order," Watada said in a public statement.
It has been almost three years since Watada became the first commissioned officer to publicly refuse to go to Iraq. His decision was not that of a conscientious objector opposed to war in general, but of an officer who felt that participating in the Iraq war was akin to committing a crime. After being denied a resignation from the US army, Watada refused to deploy to Iraq in June 2006 due to his belief that the war violated international and US constitutional laws.
"It is my conclusion as an officer of the Armed Forces that the war in Iraq is not only morally wrong but a horrible breach of American law ... As the order to take part in an illegal act is ultimately unlawful as well, I must as an officer of honor and integrity refuse that order," Watada said in a public statement.
Obviously, this guy is not a coward, just a man who stood up for his beliefs and good for him!
Hmmm, makes sense to a point. He is obviously in for a bit of a fight, just not on the battlefield. Nevertheless, he is an officer in the Army. A soldier. Soldiers follow orders. Thier job is to break things and kill people in a nutshell. Seeking CO status now is rather odd. If he has issues with a combat role, and feels he can pick and choose where his orders send him to fight, he should not have enlisted at all. Or, at the very least, chosen a different MOS. Medic, IT, Maintenance, there are tons of non combat jobs. My Father was career military. He did not agree with the Viet Nam war, thought the whole thing was a boondoggle. But he went where his orders sent him. It's called Duty. The word implies 'my country, right or wrong'. I think the individual being discussed here should be courts martialed and dishonorably discharged, prison time could be warranted as well. He is shirking his duty, no matter how noble his intentions. He should not have enlisted at all.****** edit. So, he WAS courts martialed,and that ended in a mistrial. Interesting. The UCMJ must have been amended a bit. To me, this is cut and dry and military justice used to be a bit more simplistic on matters like this. Wow, what's this country coming to when soldiers can just bail on their oath at will.
Last edited by NVplumber; 09-26-2009 at 08:57 AM..
Hmmm, makes sense to a point. He is obviously in for a bit of a fight, just not on the battlefield. Nevertheless, he is an officer in the Army. A soldier. Soldiers follow orders. Thier job is to break things and kill people in a nutshell. Seeking CO status now is rather odd. If he has issues with a combat role, and feels he can pick and choose where his orders send him to fight, he should not have enlisted at all. Or, at the very least, chosen a different MOS. Medic, IT, Maintenance, there are tons of non combat jobs. My Father was career military. He did not agree with the Viet Nam war, thought the whole thing was a boondoggle. But he went where his orders sent him. It's called Duty. The word implies 'my country, right or wrong'. I think the individual being discussed here should be courts martialed and dishonorably discharged, prison time could be warranted as well. He is shirking his duty, no matter how noble his intentions. He should not have enlisted at all.
I guess we will have to agree to disagee. Here's a link that I find interesting and represents others that agree with Mr. Watada's stance.
West Point Graduates Against the War
Instilled by the Cadet Honor System with a fundamental, longstanding respect for truth, we graduates of the United States Military Academy believe that honor is a basic attribute of character. That we are no longer cadets is irrelevant. We stand appalled by the deceitful behavior of the government of the United States and, in particular, its widely known malefactors. Lying, cheating, stealing, delivering evasive statements and quibbling not only has demeaned these deceivers and the United States of America, but has placed vast numbers of innocent people in deadly peril. We will not serve the lies.
The war in Iraq was launched illegally. It has since killed tens of thousands of innocents, causing incalculable damage to Iraq and the Iraqi people, as well as the reputation of the United States of America. We will not serve the lies.
When we West Point graduates took our commissioning oath of office one past June morning, we swore to protect our nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The deceitful connivances of the current administration have resulted in a war catastrophic to our nations interests: politically, economically, militarily, and morally. We now stand to protect our nation from these deceivers. We will not serve their lies.
We seek justice for all victims of this illegal war, both servicemen and servicewomen, and the citizens of Iraq.
We demand an immediate withdrawal of all Coalition Forces from Iraq.
To our purpose we invoke the words of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence whereby we too mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor.
nice war mongering thugs in here! anyways this is why the military recruits young people when they can basically influence them. It is kind of whoreish in way and this guy basically said he isn't into killing people.
What gets me is if you sign up for the military, War and killing people is a real possibilty.
HE VOLUNTEERED!!! YOU DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY AND NOT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU ARE BEING TRAINED TO KILL AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE!!!!!
Nobody here is a warmonger! But war is necessary at times! This guy owes us money!!
HE VOLUNTEERED!!! YOU DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY AND NOT HAVE THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU ARE BEING TRAINED TO KILL AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE!!!!!
Nobody here is a warmonger! But war is necessary at times! This guy owes us money!!
As long as you are requesting a refund from him, you might inquire about this...
Missing Iraq billions could be 'greatest fraud in US history'
Monday, The Independent's Iraq correspondent Patrick Cockburn reported the inspectors believe misuse may account for over $50 billion, exceeding the scope of Bernie Madoff's massive Ponzi scheme and making it potentially the "greatest fraud in US history."
"In a preface to the 456-page book, Bowen writes that he knew the reconstruction was in trouble when he first visited Iraq in January 2004 and saw duffel bags full of cash being carried out of the Republican Palace, which housed the U.S. occupation government."
This was an illegal war to steal, nothing more, nothing less.
Let him go if he had no inclination to fight for this country.
But send him the bill.
Democrats looking for free tuition that are not capable of putting a piece of lead between the eyes of a terrorist should be outed on billboards all across this nation. The pansiness has to stop.
Stop being stupid and once again making the issue one of b.s. partisan politics!
Has nothing to do with being democratic or republican.
You'll be hard pressed to find someone more against the Iraq war than I. And yes, I was against it before that became trendy.
Even so: This guy is a disgrace. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he didn't understand what he signed up for originally, but his conscience crisis sure struck at a very late point in time. Someone should have spotted that he wasn't officer material.
So what to do? You can't put him in command of a unit now. You could send him to Leavenworth - "pour encourager les autres", as the saying goes. But according to the article, the army messed up his first court-martial and double jeopardy applies. Meh. Kick him out, good riddance.
Oh, and then there's this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2
Actually, its the whole point. The guy is an ARTILLERY officer for crissakes. That's COMBAT Arms.
As an old infrantryman, I am forever bound to point out that artillery is a support arm. They get uneasy if the actual combat gets closer than 5 miles or so.
I guess we will have to agree to disagee. Here's a link that I find interesting and represents others that agree with Mr. Watada's stance.
West Point Graduates Against the War
Instilled by the Cadet Honor System with a fundamental, longstanding respect for truth, we graduates of the United States Military Academy believe that honor is a basic attribute of character. That we are no longer cadets is irrelevant. We stand appalled by the deceitful behavior of the government of the United States and, in particular, its widely known malefactors. Lying, cheating, stealing, delivering evasive statements and quibbling not only has demeaned these deceivers and the United States of America, but has placed vast numbers of innocent people in deadly peril. We will not serve the lies.
The war in Iraq was launched illegally. It has since killed tens of thousands of innocents, causing incalculable damage to Iraq and the Iraqi people, as well as the reputation of the United States of America. We will not serve the lies.
When we West Point graduates took our commissioning oath of office one past June morning, we swore to protect our nation against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The deceitful connivances of the current administration have resulted in a war catastrophic to our nations interests: politically, economically, militarily, and morally. We now stand to protect our nation from these deceivers. We will not serve their lies.
We seek justice for all victims of this illegal war, both servicemen and servicewomen, and the citizens of Iraq.
We demand an immediate withdrawal of all Coalition Forces from Iraq.
To our purpose we invoke the words of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence whereby we too mutually pledge to each other our lives, our Fortunes, & our sacred Honor.
As...inspiring..as all this is, it does not change the fact that individuals such as this, enlisted in military service, assumed the responsibilities that go with that service, and bailed on their fellow soldiers. It's all fine and well to not agree with the reasons for a war, even for a fighting man, but it is not acceptable to refuse to go where the orders lead, while the rest of ones unit does. Honor means different things to different people I guess, however, if these guys want to take a stand against the war, a more appropriate venue would be with their comrades, not safely stateside wrapped in a mantle of righteous indignation and sleeping safely in a nice warm bed, while their fellow soldiers are in combat. My .02.
At the very least, I say that the Army sends him a bill for all his training, any college, etc.
I'm sure they will
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What can you do?
