Sorry Kids, Healthcare is still priority no. 1

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner

I know people at Wal Mart that make more than 7 dollars an hour.

I know a guy that worked at Wal Mart and was pulling in over a 100 grand a year. And all he had was a high school diploma.

He quit and started his own business. I'm guessing he pulls in about 600grand a year now. But, that's just a guess.

I do know this. He used money he made working at Wal Mart to start his new business.

I know his name was WALTON

[TuborgP]

Originally Posted by BigV

The dead end kids



I'm sure it has nothing to do with the minimum wage laws.

Beyond the current economy it is a major structural challenge with a direct connection with the drop out rate in many states. Look at some of the hardest hit states and compare their dropout rates with the national average. It is predicatable and long term scary.

[Gyconi]

Originally Posted by BigV

What?

Who is stealing from you or from the poor? The reason why people are wealthy is because they... CREATE wealth.

The governments steal wealth through taxes, but if the business stops CREATING wealth (though products or services) forget it, no government will save you.

Yes, they create the very wealth that they hoard to themselves. How do they steal from us? Well, how about paying workers **** wages for doing all the hard work that gave them their oh so important wealth in the first place? How about looking at the current economic crisis in which they themselves created? Millions unemployed, wages are decreasing, and yet, they're still billionaires.

And what makes you so sure that I'm relying on the government to save me? Government ain't gonna do ****. Hell, government is the other half of the problem.

Those whom you call lucky are either kids or grand kids of the hard workers who created their wealth, or the politicians.

No, people who actually work hard don't become billionaires, they become the middle class or the poor.

What is your suggestion? That we should rob them of their wealth and give it to you and your kids?

I'd favor the workers of a business or workplace actually be the owners of said business or workplace and have it's wealth evenly distributed amongst the workers themselves, and for it to be ran democratically.

Capitalism does have it's problems, but it's still a far better system than socialism.

Yes, wage slavery and recessions are great, aren't they?

Ultimately, in socialism there is no incentive to work, to produce or to create anything because you are ultimately graded on a curve.

Yes, because in a libertarian socialist society nobody would take any pride in their work. We'd all be lazy bums out on the street drinking booze.

Equal pay for work hours means that there is no incentive to be the CEO or the doctor, because as a janitor you can make the same money with less headaches.

That'll be great! If there's no CEOs then we'd have succeeded. If I am a libertarian socialist, then what would make you think that I'd want there to any CEOs or feel that it's a valid or legitimate position? I don't. You don't seem to understand what libertarian socialism is. Libertarian socialists are strongly opposed to any form of hierarchy or authority that can not justify itself, and since we tend to believe that businesses should and can be ran democratically amongst the workers themselves, CEOs fail to justify their authority and thus are unneeded, and the money that is used to pay their exorbitant pay should be used instead to either increase the wages of the actual workers that brought the business it's success in the first place, or hire more workers.

Really, so when are you moving to Cuba? And what makes you think that under socialism everyone will be equal? I am from the former Soviet Union and I can tell you that the elites were always more equal than everyone else.

Well, good thing no one's talking about the Soviet Union then. I'm talking about libertarian socialism, where there would be no elites, as once again, libertarian socialists despise authority and hierarchies.

You should be grateful you are even employed. Noone owes you any more money. If your labor was truly worth more, you would get paid more. The reason you don't get more money is because you are NOT worth more.

But the investors and corporate executives are worth SO much more the hard workers out there, right.

And did I ever speak of my current employment situation?

In Capitalistic system, you can create your own company and prove that you are worth more. In socialism, you can whine and cry all you want until ultimately you have no business, your government is your employer and while you make money, your products and services are pure garbage that neither you or anyone else wants to buy.

Talk to Russians who lived there during the 1970-1990's and ask them if given the choice between western (capitalistic) products vs. their own, whose would they buy? Under Socialistic system, the products are more often GARBAGE yet it costs more than the quality product made in a different country.

Oh wonderful. Let's reduce nearly 300 million Americans to wage slaves, have thousands die each year due to a lack of affordable health care to appease the insurance companies, thousands to millions more die for the benefit of the tobacco companies, have countless lives ruined in the absurd "war on drugs" so that the prison industrial complex can continue raking in a huge fortune year after year, have over a million Iraqi's killed to further the profits of Halliburton and Black Water, devastate the environment and ignore the problem of human caused global warming for the sake the oil and energy companies, all for a slightly better iPod.

Yeah, that's sounds like a worthy trade off.

Why don't you start your own business? Because you have no skills or don't want to take the risk?

Then don't whine and cry that you are worth more. If it's a form a slavery I want you to quit your job as I'm sure there are others who would gladly take it and will be glad to receive even less than what you are paid.

Many people can't afford to leave their jobs and start their own business.

And I'm not whining about my financial situation, rather, I'm angry over the power the corporations, the owners of this nation have, and how they use it. I'm angry over the fact that a corporation in this country is regarded as a person, where as actual people are treated as cattle, to be herded, milked, and then sent to the slaughterhouse after we have outlived our usefulness.

If you feel that current government is oppressive, check out socialistic countries and their governments.

Did you not read what I've said? I said that while their several other governments that are far worse than ours, it still not good enough. We're still not free.

And as I've also said earlier, libertarian socialists favor either a small government, or no government at all. We're often called anarchists, after all

[migee]

Originally Posted by Gyconi

And interesting that you talk about being enslaved. Well, what do you think we have now? When you're forced to serve a master whom will make a fortune off of your hard work while you live paycheck to paycheck, with the threat of homelessness and starvation if you don't, then how are you not a slave? Indeed, socialists tend to view renting one's self out to an owner as being not too far different than slavery itself, often referring to it as "wage slavery."

As much as we wisely distrust government, I'd argue that the corporations are inherently just as authoritarian.

Why is it that so many people have worked quite happily for so many years?

Why is it that in this country, and many others, we have had a work-force paying all the taxes, and they've been living rather good lives?

Indeed there are people caught in traps of miserable jobs, under miserable conditions - But, there certainly has been much opportunity given to many - Especially the poor, who have had more than 50 years of opportunities in my lifetime. There have been plenty of educational and poverty programs offering opportunities. How much have we spent in education alone in this country?

And, the beneficiaries squandered the opportunities - And that's the real fact.

[texdav]

To the OP;no tokids cellhones;Ipod and the like are more important than health care insurance . That isn;t only kids as in children either.