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What some don't seem to realize is that there are a lot of us Independents who will never be able to vote again for a Republican as long as the party is held hostage by the name callers, the haters, those who would be willing to tear their country apart based on lies and innuendos. I have no problem with those who will argue passionately over ISSUES. That is legitimate and I can honor that even if I differ from them on those issues.
What I do have a problem with is those who base their arguments on things such ridiculous claims of non citizenship, mocking the looks of the first lady, making racist remarks, and creating artifical "causes" over things such as a casual remark by the supreme court nominee or the president and first lady going out for dinner and a show. When a party has to sink to the level of doing things like this then they have nothing to offer me.
I happen to think that both parties have, by and large, been bought and paid for by corporate lobbyist and that, with few exceptions, do not give a fig for those who vote them into office. But, given these as our only choices, I can never align myself with those who have behaved as the Republicans have behaved during the election and since the election. Them are an embarrassement to themselves and to all Americans.
Sad is a day when someone won't vote on the issues but based on observations about a party or those who believe in it. Although some of the loudness is clearly not acceptable, there are as many loud mouthed liberals so I suppose you can't vote Democrat either (that assumes you're consistent in your chosen approach.)
Those supposed remarks by Sotomayor were much more than casual. Sorry if you don't appreciate it.
As for bought and paid politicians, we should all require accountability. Each citizen should perform their own assessment through the various watchdog groups that report about contributions, etc.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,752,651 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML
Kev, I agree with what you have said and I have said the same thing on other postings on this forum. The problem I am faced with though is that had the election gone the other way we would have had a 74 year old cancer survivor who had proven he would sell out his principals to the far right machine and who had chosen as his VP Sarah Palin. As bad as things are going now, can you imagine what would have happened if Sarah Palin were in charge? I agree with those who say that both political parties have sold out to special interests. The far right neo cons care more about hating anyone who doesn't march in lockstep with them than they do about doing things for the good of the country. And the moderate democrats have been drinking from the same lobbyist swamp as the republicans. We need two new parties. One for liberals who honestly care about good government and one for conservatives who honestly believe in the old fashion conservative ideals. And we won't get either until we have complete campaign reform.
I agree the other choice would have been bad if he lived and horrible if he died in office and left the country in the hands of Sarah Palin. I shake at the thought of that.
But I mean, Jesus, you elect a "new Democrat" and give the party a huge majority in both houses and they still don't do a damn thing!
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,752,651 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by checking out
Oh, and by the way, if you hadn't heard there's another third party option. It's called the communist party. Here's there website and you can see the first article about Nagin who is actually running for political office.
Sorry but I am not in to the Communist Party- USA or anywhere else. The fact that they murdered 30 million people and damn near killed my father would kind of prevent me from ever voting for them. I would like to see a "Labour Party" here- led by people like Ralph Nader.
"I happen to think that both parties have, by and large, been bought and paid for by corporate lobbyist and that, with few exceptions, do not give a fig for those who vote them into office. But, given these as our only choices, I can never align myself with those who have behaved as the Republicans have behaved during the election and since the election. Them are an embarrassement to themselves and to all Americans."
I don't blame you. The first thing that MUST happen is the breaking the stranglehold the two faces of the Republicrats have created of the election system. Till they have a voter desertion issue they won't care because regardless of whether you vote R or D one of their people is still in power. You are not going to be heard in either party. Big money makes a louder sound that they want to hear: CHACHING!
I agree the other choice would have been bad if he lived and horrible if he died in office and left the country in the hands of Sarah Palin. I shake at the thought of that.
But I mean, Jesus, you elect a "new Democrat" and give the party a huge majority in both houses and they still don't do a damn thing!
I think that by giving the Democrats the huge majority AND the White House we just succeeded in ripping the mask off of the politicians of both parties. Because now the Dems can not blame the Republicans because we didn't get the health care reform that the Dems have been promising for decades. And they can't blame them because we are still at war. And they can't blame them because NAFTA wasn't re-negotiated. And they can't blame them because DADT was not suspended. etc. etc.
Likewise I think that 8 years of Bush....6 with a huge majority of Republicans in both houses....ripped the mask off of the Republicans. Because they couldn't blame the Democrats because abortion on demand was still the law. They couldn't blame the Democrats for turning the enormous surplus they inherited into a nation breaking deficit. They couldn't blame the Dems for giving away the store to communist China. And they couldn't blame the Dems for insane spending and deregulation that put the country into a hole they may never escape.
Both parties have shown they are answerable only to those who pay them off and not to the people and certainly not to the ideals and campaign promises they make to those who elect them.
I voted for Obama. Not only did I vote for him but I worked in his campaign and gave money to the effort. I was really excited when he won. It brought joy to my heart and tears to my eyes when we won. We celebrated all night long and I still have the T Shirt they gave to all volunteers. I even wear it from time to time just to **** off the conservatives.
But I have to ask- where is the "hope and change" I voted for?? So far I am seeing basically a 3rd term of GW Bush! Nothing has changed and we have no hope. The only change is that the unemployment rate continues to creep toward depression era levels. I am not blaming Obama for the bad economy the Republicans handed him BUT what about the agenda for hope and change??
At the top of that was health care. It is dead. Killed not by the Republicans but by the Democrats absent any leadership from Obama at all. It looks like all he wants to do is to sign something that says "healthcare reform" on it even if it is totally meanningless- which at this point it will be. Nancy Pelosi has shown more spine on this than Obama has. We went from single payer to the "public option" to "cooperatives" to now nothing. So much for that.
Then we have Eric Holder. A worthless Attorney General that would rather prosecute American soldiers for trying to protect this country by being too hard on the Arab terror suspects than actually do things like go after corporate criminals who have robbed the country blind and use the anti trust laws to break up obvious illegal monopolies and prevent new ones from forming (it was on Holder's watch that TicketMaster was allowed to swallow their only small competition Live Nation).
The middle class continues the race to the bottom, the robber barrons get richer everyday (which is why Wall St goes up right along with the unemployment rate and health insurance premiums for those still fortunate enough to have a job) and more and more of the few jobs left are headed to Mexico and China. But Obama does not seem to care much unless it is AIG or Bank of America on the phone asking for a bailout. No bailout for the middle class!
Then we have gay rights- which Obama promised action on- that are still on the "back burner". Obama could end discrimination in the military against gays with the stroke of a pen but he won't for some reason I don't understand. I guess the religious nutcases got to him too.
He promised REAL education reform and so far nothing has been delivered or even proposed except that he did force a few thousand poor black students in DC back into inferior public schools there.
And then there are the wars. In Iraq we still have 140,000 soldiers- the same as when he took office- and still no exit plan. They just sit there wondering if they will ever see home again. Then he cannot seem to decide what to do in Afganistan- whether to go all in or get out or just "sit on it" for another 4 years as the last President did.
It seems as though the Republicans, despite their minority, are still running the show in DC. The roll Obama on almost every issue. And he acts like he is scared to stand up to them.
We need a LEADER. We don't need another Jimmy Carter. We need an FDR. If Obama cannot lead, he should hand the reins to Biden who probably can. I gave Bush an F. I am giving Obama a D so far.
The war will not end with a bad economy because it will only make the economy worse. More people without jobs would include military and military contractors. Businesses that depend on military contracts could go under - makers of parts as well as suppliers of services.
The President will not end the war but he won't actually support it, either. He campaigned on Afghanistan being THE war he wanted to fight. Everyone who supported him, clapped. Don't hear any of his supporters in the media (which is most of them) calling for a timeline for withdrawal or an exit strategy.
I'm not opining that the above is right or wrong, just how I see it politically shaking out.
He spoke fence straddler talk as a campaigner and now he's trying to govern the same ambiguous way. What he says never has any detail and his actions don't match his words.
If he wanted healthcare reform, he would have had his own bill from the get go. But he didn't want to crash from it so he let Congress be the fall guy. I think the Dems in Congress are wising up and trying to blame the Republicans but with Democrats controlling the Senate, House and White House, everyone know "Healthcare reform" is the Democrats' ugly baby. If it passes and stinks it's their fault. If it doesn't pass, it's their own people who didn't pass it.
If he supports the War in Afghanistan, he'd talk to his handpicked Generals more and give them what they want.
If he thought the stimulus bill was supposed to stimulate the economy he wouldn't have signed a bill full of outlandish junk that had nothing to do with stimulating the economy and no one read. If it was truly "stimulus" it would have all been spent, already. Anyone who has ever been stimulated knows the effect is supposed to happen immediately or it's not stimulus.
If he supports a better DC, some of his advisors seem dubious. If they couldn't get a security clearance to work as a clerk in some government agency because of things in their past, that should have been a huge clue.
Making Gitmo deadline proclamations without a reality check --- not so wise.
If he's really so "green" his personal choices seem lame.
BUT, "I'm not going to raise your taxes if you make under $250,000" will be his downfall if he reneges or tries to disguise it in other forms. Tax increases and new taxes are the only things everyone understands. It will be interesting to see his strategy on implementing this one. Did you ever see the commercial where the guy offers one little kid a little plastic pony and gives the other kid a real one and the first kid says, "Well you didn't say I could have a real pony" and the guy says, "Well, you didn't ask." That's what will happen, I imagine, if the president says, "We're going to have a Value Added Tax (VAT)" and people call him on raising taxes. He'll say, "I said I wasn't raising your income tax. You didn't ask about a VAT."
I voted for Obama. Not only did I vote for him but I worked in his campaign and gave money to the effort. I was really excited when he won. It brought joy to my heart and tears to my eyes when we won. We celebrated all night long and I still have the T Shirt they gave to all volunteers. I even wear it from time to time just to **** off the conservatives.
But I have to ask- where is the "hope and change" I voted for?? So far I am seeing basically a 3rd term of GW Bush! Nothing has changed and we have no hope. The only change is that the unemployment rate continues to creep toward depression era levels. I am not blaming Obama for the bad economy the Republicans handed him BUT what about the agenda for hope and change??
At the top of that was health care. It is dead. Killed not by the Republicans but by the Democrats absent any leadership from Obama at all. It looks like all he wants to do is to sign something that says "healthcare reform" on it even if it is totally meanningless- which at this point it will be. Nancy Pelosi has shown more spine on this than Obama has. We went from single payer to the "public option" to "cooperatives" to now nothing. So much for that.
Then we have Eric Holder. A worthless Attorney General that would rather prosecute American soldiers for trying to protect this country by being too hard on the Arab terror suspects than actually do things like go after corporate criminals who have robbed the country blind and use the anti trust laws to break up obvious illegal monopolies and prevent new ones from forming (it was on Holder's watch that TicketMaster was allowed to swallow their only small competition Live Nation).
The middle class continues the race to the bottom, the robber barrons get richer everyday (which is why Wall St goes up right along with the unemployment rate and health insurance premiums for those still fortunate enough to have a job) and more and more of the few jobs left are headed to Mexico and China. But Obama does not seem to care much unless it is AIG or Bank of America on the phone asking for a bailout. No bailout for the middle class!
Then we have gay rights- which Obama promised action on- that are still on the "back burner". Obama could end discrimination in the military against gays with the stroke of a pen but he won't for some reason I don't understand. I guess the religious nutcases got to him too.
He promised REAL education reform and so far nothing has been delivered or even proposed except that he did force a few thousand poor black students in DC back into inferior public schools there.
And then there are the wars. In Iraq we still have 140,000 soldiers- the same as when he took office- and still no exit plan. They just sit there wondering if they will ever see home again. Then he cannot seem to decide what to do in Afganistan- whether to go all in or get out or just "sit on it" for another 4 years as the last President did.
It seems as though the Republicans, despite their minority, are still running the show in DC. The roll Obama on almost every issue. And he acts like he is scared to stand up to them.
We need a LEADER. We don't need another Jimmy Carter. We need an FDR. If Obama cannot lead, he should hand the reins to Biden who probably can. I gave Bush an F. I am giving Obama a D so far.
Obama and the democrats have the same issue as the republicans. They're politicians and will say whatever is necessary to get elected even if they no intention of attempting to fix what they promised. All of them are corrupt. I don't give a dam what letter is next to there name.
Both parties have shown they are answerable only to those who pay them off and not to the people and certainly not to the ideals and campaign promises they make to those who elect them.
Here! Here!
Do you remember the fear that was created in the career politicians when voter apathy was high? Wait till they decide to vote NOTA. the only way you are going to phase them is when you stop voting for EITHER of the two faces they present to us, the voters. It really IS like "Sales" and "Production" in ONE company. They are both part of the same company.
Politics are like west Texas weather; if you don't like it at the moment, just hang around five minutes and it will change. As for me, only time will tell whether or not Obama is an effective leader or not but I am sure I don't want him or his ilk at the helm.
I voted for Obama. Not only did I vote for him but I worked in his campaign and gave money to the effort. I was really excited when he won. It brought joy to my heart and tears to my eyes when we won. We celebrated all night long and I still have the T Shirt they gave to all volunteers. I even wear it from time to time just to **** off the conservatives.
But I have to ask- where is the "hope and change" I voted for?? So far I am seeing basically a 3rd term of GW Bush! Nothing has changed and we have no hope. The only change is that the unemployment rate continues to creep toward depression era levels. I am not blaming Obama for the bad economy the Republicans handed him BUT what about the agenda for hope and change??
At the top of that was health care. It is dead. Killed not by the Republicans but by the Democrats absent any leadership from Obama at all. It looks like all he wants to do is to sign something that says "healthcare reform" on it even if it is totally meanningless- which at this point it will be. Nancy Pelosi has shown more spine on this than Obama has. We went from single payer to the "public option" to "cooperatives" to now nothing. So much for that.
Then we have Eric Holder. A worthless Attorney General that would rather prosecute American soldiers for trying to protect this country by being too hard on the Arab terror suspects than actually do things like go after corporate criminals who have robbed the country blind and use the anti trust laws to break up obvious illegal monopolies and prevent new ones from forming (it was on Holder's watch that TicketMaster was allowed to swallow their only small competition Live Nation).
The middle class continues the race to the bottom, the robber barrons get richer everyday (which is why Wall St goes up right along with the unemployment rate and health insurance premiums for those still fortunate enough to have a job) and more and more of the few jobs left are headed to Mexico and China. But Obama does not seem to care much unless it is AIG or Bank of America on the phone asking for a bailout. No bailout for the middle class!
Then we have gay rights- which Obama promised action on- that are still on the "back burner". Obama could end discrimination in the military against gays with the stroke of a pen but he won't for some reason I don't understand. I guess the religious nutcases got to him too.
He promised REAL education reform and so far nothing has been delivered or even proposed except that he did force a few thousand poor black students in DC back into inferior public schools there.
And then there are the wars. In Iraq we still have 140,000 soldiers- the same as when he took office- and still no exit plan. They just sit there wondering if they will ever see home again. Then he cannot seem to decide what to do in Afganistan- whether to go all in or get out or just "sit on it" for another 4 years as the last President did.
It seems as though the Republicans, despite their minority, are still running the show in DC. The roll Obama on almost every issue. And he acts like he is scared to stand up to them.
We need a LEADER. We don't need another Jimmy Carter. We need an FDR. If Obama cannot lead, he should hand the reins to Biden who probably can. I gave Bush an F. I am giving Obama a D so far.
We tried to tell you he is not ready to lead
he is ready to be bowed down to
and he is busy tring to back back the ones that elected him
he is far worse that I ever thought he would be
yep, change you can believe in
welcome to Obama World
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