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I'm not disagreeing with what he said. But his statements did nothing to sway public opinion, only to further polarize. If he had done it in a partisan forum or town hall meeting, I'd cut him some slack. But on the floor of the House, it is an ineffective way to bring people to your side. There are better ways to make the point. He didn't want to make the point. He is a freshman in congress and just wanted to get media attention.
It was NOT ineffective in getting support from citizens, which translates into support ultimately in Congress.
In what way is Grayson a hypocrite IYO? I don't get it. He may have rec'd donations from a tobacco group, however, he has still established a record of fighting corporate fraud as well as other things he said he would do.
He didn't even receive donations from a tobacco group. He received donations from a PAC that has received donations from a tobacco group.
It was NOT ineffective in getting support from citizens, which translates into support ultimately in Congress.
That's where we disagree.
IMO, if you take the folks that have already made up their minds out of the equation, I don't think that his antics swayed anyone anymore than Joe Wilson's did.
To use Wilson as an example, I can't believe that the fanfare and $ support that he received came from any groundswell of formerly neutral citizens. I have a hard time believing that any truly neutral person heard him and thought, "Okay, now it is clear to me. I am now against the health care initiative."
What I think would have been a better way to go would be for an outsider to make that presentation in a public forum and Grayson affirm the info in the role of leader.
I just think that what he and Wilson have done only creates more white noise that contributes to the undecided's eyes glazing over, thinking- "Politicians, SOSDD."
IMO, if you take the folks that have already made up their minds out of the equation, I don't think that his antics swayed anyone anymore than Joe Wilson's did.
To use Wilson as an example, I can't believe that the fanfare and $ support that he received came from any groundswell of formerly neutral citizens. I have a hard time believing that any truly neutral person heard him and thought, "Okay, now it is clear to me. I am now against the health care initiative."
What I think would have been a better way to go would be for an outsider to make that presentation in a public forum and Grayson affirm the info in the role of leader.
I just think that what he and Wilson have done only creates more white noise that contributes to the undecided's eyes glazing over, thinking- "Politicians, SOSDD."
Seems to me that getting "ordinary citizens" concerned enough that they will make donations also means that many of those same citizens will become more active.......writing and calling their representatives/senators and expressing what THEY WANT. Just look at the "ordinary citizens" who have been organized by Americans For Prosperity. They made a difference in the town hall meetings. I think if politicians see that a majority of their voters don't like what they are doing, then they have some "hard" decisions to make: Do I please the corporations or do I please my voters? Of course, the voters have to see someone take a strong stand for them before they may be motivated to act.
I'm not disagreeing with what he said. But his statements did nothing to sway public opinion, only to further polarize. If he had done it in a partisan forum or town hall meeting, I'd cut him some slack. But on the floor of the House, it is an ineffective way to bring people to your side. There are better ways to make the point. He didn't want to make the point. He is a freshman in congress and just wanted to get media attention.
OMG, talk about misplaced disappointment. An entirely OVERDUE rebuttal that does not come anywhere CLOSE to level of vitriol youve been hearing from the GOP (pull the plug on grandma, death panels, blah blah blah lie lie lie) is somehow cause for embarrassment?
Well, either you dont understand WHAT this man is saying, or you dont understand WHY this man is saying it.
It's clearly one or the other, and it could even be both. Perhaps you didnt listen to what he said and are only going by 10 second soundbites?
I really dont know but am at a a loss as to understand how anything this man said should be construed as "embarrassing" as it was all TRUE. And perhaps that is why he is saying it in the first place, because no one else will.
Congressional Republicans are expressing outrage over freshman Rep. Alan Grayson's suggestion on the House floor Tuesday night that the GOP health care plan amounts to little more than "don't get sick" -- and if you do, "die quickly."
Republicans have called for an apology from the Florida Democrat, and have compared Grayson's remark to Rep. Joe Wilson's (R-S.C.) "You lie!" outburst.
But there's a big difference between the two floor statements. One was unprecedented -- the president had never been called a liar by a member of Congress during an address in all of American history.
By contrast, charges that the opposition's health care plan will kill people have been about as common on the House floor lately as resolutions naming post offices.
Take Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-Fla.), who said in July: "Last week, Democrats released a health care bill which essentially said to America's seniors: drop dead."
Or Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.), a doctor, who reviewed the public health insurance option in July and diagnosed that it is "gonna kill people."
Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.), not one to pull punches, suggested on the House floor that Congress "make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all Americans and that ensures affordable access for all Americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government."
July was a busy time for House floor death sentences. Also that month, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas), noted: "One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine...I would hate to think that among five women, one of 'em is gonna die because we go to socialized care."
Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) had a similar assessment. "They're going to save money by rationing care, getting you in a long line. Places like Canada, United Kingdom, and Europe. People die when they're in line," he said on the House floor in July.
So far, none of the members of Congress who made such charges have apologized.
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So, I'm not upset at what Grayson said, as a matter of fact, I'm glad he did.
Last edited by Bagger; 10-11-2009 at 11:41 AM..
Reason: Cleaning up the formatting
OMG, talk about misplaced disappointment. An entirely OVERDUE rebuttal that does not come anywhere CLOSE to level of vitriol youve been hearing from the GOP (pull the plug on grandma, death panels, blah blah blah lie lie lie) is somehow cause for embarrassment?
Well, either you dont understand WHAT this man is saying, or you dont understand WHY this man is saying it.
It's clearly one or the other, and it could even be both. Perhaps you didnt listen to what he said and are only going by 10 second soundbites?
I really dont know but am at a a loss as to understand how anything this man said should be construed as "embarrassing" as it was all TRUE. And perhaps that is why he is saying it in the first place, because no one else will.
Your condescension is showing.
I guess either you don't understand what I posted or else you didn't read it. What he said was not an embarassment. He spoke the truth and I agree with him. It was where he chose to say it.
My point was that it was my opinion that it was the wrong venue to sway undecideds who are getting fed up with the dramatics during sessons of the legislature. Wilson's outburst did much to help our cause, but, in my opinion, Grayson's soapbox performance took away some of that and only served to reinforce the beliefs of those who say that both parties are the same.
Dems have a golden opportunity to really take back this country for the long haul. It's ours to lose now. If our leaders take the high road and show leadership, I just think it will set us apart.
Again, if he wanted to make the same speech in a different venue, I'd love it. I just think that it was the wrong place to do so, that's all. I think it would be good if it is the republicans in congress that become known for showing a lack of decorum on the floor. We shouldn't stoop to join them.
Bagger's post above mine is a prime example. The republicans are coming off like a bunch of spoiled teenagers who will do and say anything to get their point across, even resorting to lying. We don't have to play by their rules. (Again, I know that he was not lying, it is the dramatics that I am referring to.) We should set the example of what leadership is all about.
FWIW, I truly hope that I am 100% wrong and his actions motivate the silent majority to rally like never before. We must pass health care legislation. It is critical.
He is an embarrassment alright, to the Republican Party.
Using simple facts and figures anyone could ascertain, and backing them with a Harvard Medical study (peer reviewed) he accurately stated that 42,000 Americans die every year from lack of health care.
Aint heard a single Republican mention this fact. Yet I did hear them all get together to ask for an "apology" from Grayson, who rightly told them to stick it where the sun dont shine.
And the Dem solution is to push the country further towards bankruptcy by spending 800 billion dollars that would still leave OVER 20 MILLION UNINSURED. Why is it that the Dems want those 20 million to get sick and die quickly?
And the Dem solution is to push the country further towards bankruptcy by spending 800 billion dollars that would still leave OVER 20 MILLION UNINSURED. Why is it that the Dems want those 20 million to get sick and die quickly?
Well, I have to admit I was a little intrigued by this freshman representative from Florida's 8th, so I did a little research just to find out what fuels his fire. Care to guess what I found?
They can give money to his campaign if they want to, why not?
"Grayson also was the first President of IDT Corporation, a publicly traded billion-dollar telecommunications company.[1][5] Grayson was ranked as the 12th-wealthiest member of Congress based on financial disclosure forms with a minimum net worth of $31.12 million, according to Roll Call.[6]" - wiki
Dont beat up on Alan Grayson, your district should have such a good person representing you.
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