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Some folks won't be happy until people are willing to work for food. They long for the days of serfdom, never realizing that they too may well end up being serfs.
But as I pointed out above, the minimum wage does create its own serfdom. It prices jobs out of existence and it reduces the incentive for businesses to hire more people. Which would you rather see, low unemployment at $3/hr or very high unemployment at $10/hr?
But as I pointed out above, the minimum wage does create its own serfdom. It prices jobs out of existence and it reduces the incentive for businesses to hire more people. Which would you rather see, low unemployment at $3/hr or very high unemployment at $10/hr?
Neither. We have a chicken and egg situation. You and others feel that it is the presence of a minimum wage or the threat of an increase of a minimum wage that triggers layoffs and unemployment. This is not true since the minimum wage has not risen in decades and unemployment has been rising steadily for the last eight years. If there was no minimum wage you would still have rising unemployment when the illegal Central Americans came. The only difference is that instead of $3/hr the illegals would be offered $1/hr. They would still take it because it is more than they would get in Mexico.
If what it takes to get employment figures back into reality is no minimum wage so business can exploit Americans into slavery then you know what @#$%@$ them all! Lets brawl in the streets like animals and burn this sucker down. As long as there is something called a billionaire sucking thousands of dollars out of the economy every day I will not accept that Americans should work for less than a living wage. No matter what they do. If they do something, anything, it is worth being compensated. And not at 50c/hr.
I have no problem with a minimum wage. I do have a problem with a FEDERAL minimum wage. The cost of living in New york city is not the same as the cost of living in Arkansas or Louisiana. There are many states that have raised their minimum wage much higher than the federal minimum wage.
Exactly. The Federal figure is a minimum. You luck out if you live in a low COL area. You think it should be even lower in AK because it isn't close to being living wage in NYC? Where is your humanity?
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The idea that the federal government should tell EVERY STATE where to set their minimum wage is stupid.
That's how it works though, shall we have another Civil War and revisit States Rights?
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
Do we not think Arkansas knows whats best for its own business and citizens? If Arkansas companies are underpaying so badly, then why can't people just move to another state? We have a single federal entity controlling the entire country from hundreds or thousands of miles away, and we are given no other options.
Not just Arkansas but every other state in the Union, er, United States of America. There have been abuses. No, people shouldn't have to flee their state to get paid a living wage. You just want to force your underclass out of the state and bring in more Central Americans. I see right through you.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The idea that Oklahoma or Arkansas consistently gets "told what to do" by California, New York, and New Jersey is ridiculous.
It is Washington, er, the District of Columbia, that does the telling and NYC, CA and NJ have to listen as well as AR.
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Originally Posted by Redshadowz
The role of the federal government is to the protect the rights of the people. Not to control the economy and set wages. That is the job of communists and fascists.
I am not understanding your beef. Again, where is your humanity? What is it to you? Do you own a business? Are you really finding it impossible to stay in business unless you slash wages to $3.00/hr? If so, I have no sympathy. Move your business to Mexico and leave America to its Communist/Facist ways. You are clearly better than America deserves.
It is your responsibility to obtain the skills necessary to earn a living.
It is not the employers responsibility to pay you more then you are worth.
( not meaning you )
People need to work harder to obtain some skill or knowledge that pays them more money to live on.
Everyone has some kind of skill that needs to be tapped into.
Everyone should make what they are of value to the employer and not be regulated by the government.
I understand where you are coming from but as a former business owner it was not right for me to have to pay someone 6.00 per hour when they are only worth 3.00 per hour to me.
Those employee need to kick it up a notch and become more productive or more of a value to a business so they can earn raises etc.
3.50 per hour would be for people who have no skills or value to a business other then the 3.50.
Obviously as the business owner and boss, you should have 'taken resposibility for yourself" AS the BOSS and fired the unproductive employees.
Really the onus is on YOU. Not the "worthless" minimum wage people YOU hired.
Min wage needs to be lowered to 4.00 per hour for those who have zero skilled and who just show up and waste the employers time.
Hell, yes the wage kills small business and their growth.
If you are skilled and worth more then the employer can offer you a job at the higher rate, if you have no skills then your a 4 buck an hour employee.
See, this is why we need a minimum wage. I don't trust you to know who is worth $6.00 and who is worth $3.50. I don't trust myself to know. C'mon, we are in the 21st Century now. These are 19th Century arguments we are having. Everyone is being made obsolete by machines. Planes are taking off and landing by themselves. Pilots are obsolete. Robotic arms can hold a scalpel 10x steadier than the best neurosurgeon money can pay. It's time to scrap the whole 'money' concept and get to something that can deal with the new world order of excess humanity and excess human potential. Seriously, unless we find a way to get rid of 150 Americans there is going to be a serious employment crisis. Small businesses will be the least of the concerns.
Exactly. The Federal figure is a minimum. You luck out if you live in a low COL area. You think it should be even lower in AK because it isn't close to being living wage in NYC? Where is your humanity?
What does humanity have to do with it? Obviously states CAN set their minimum wages to a level they see is necessary for the cost of living of the state, it is done in many states across the country. Right now someone making minimum wage in Arkansas is doing a lot better than someone making minimum wage even in California where the minimum wage is higher.
States can and do set their minimum wages to a level that is reflective of their population. If people hated it that much they would leave to another state.
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That's how it works though, shall we have another Civil War and revisit States Rights?
I don't know, is that what its going to take to get the federal government to start respecting states rights, as it was originally mandated by the 10th amendment to the constitution?
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Not just Arkansas but every other state in the Union, er, United States of America. There have been abuses. No, people shouldn't have to flee their state to get paid a living wage. You just want to force your underclass out of the state and bring in more Central Americans. I see right through you.
The people who don't want to raise the minimum wage are invariably Conservatives. You know, the people who want to seal the border and kick out all illegals? This has nothing to do with exploitation but rather a limit on the expansion of the federal government. Especially how it tends to do more harm than good when it dabbles in the economy.
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It is Washington, er, the District of Columbia, that does the telling and NYC, CA and NJ have to listen as well as AR.
I realize that, but if there are two wolves and one sheep voting on whats for dinner, is it really a fair vote?
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I am not understanding your beef. Again, where is your humanity? What is it to you? Do you own a business? Are you really finding it impossible to stay in business unless you slash wages to $3.00/hr? If so, I have no sympathy. Move your business to Mexico and leave America to its Communist/Facist ways. You are clearly better than America deserves.
What is wrong with letting states have power over their own affairs? Why does the federal government need to run the entire country from Washington?
Last edited by Redshadowz; 01-07-2010 at 12:32 AM..
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,012,380 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk
+1 for you, and I have utmost respect for your inlaws. Most small business owners would not sacrifice their own bottom line like that to provide for their employees.
The whole reason why most people start up businesses is to turn a profit and not to be some social service agency that provides for employees well-being. Most small business owners have put in lots of their own money, time and resources just to get a business off the ground and you are telling them that they need to cut back on profits in order to provide for their employees? Have you personally started up your own business? Would you be willing to take a reduction in your pay if that would save a colleague's job? Most folks would say no but yet demand business owners to take a cut in profits just to pay higher wages for their employees?
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,012,380 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa
If we had Single Payer the Employer would no longer have to foot the bill for employee's health care, Workmans Comp would also be halved because it would only cover wages. Then we could raise the minimum wage to $10 an hour and put some cash into the hands of those who would spend it. That would create demand
And we'd all be paying half our wages just to fund the UHC. Next!
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