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Speaking of crap, it was made very clear, early last year, that the GOP would NEVER involve themselves in any compromise in the development of a reform bill. The only way they would be involved, is in a bill that would be constructed of their ideas, ONLY. That way they would be able to say, for their political purposes, that they developed the bill. The only effort at bi-partisanship was done by the Democrats and the White House, who eventually came to the realization the Repubs would not budge, so they went on without them. The only Conservative influence in the resulting bills, came from the Conservatives within the Democratic Party. That you cannot see that or refuse to accept that, is a problem only you will have to deal with.
Well said!
And I have something to add to that;
The health care reform has been a platform of nearly every election as far back as I can remember. Yet, when Bush was elected not once, but twice, neither time was the health care issue even mentioned after the elections were over and NOTHING absolutely nothing was accomplished or even attempted!
The health care reform has been a platform of nearly every election as far back as I can remember. Yet, when Bush was elected not once, but twice, neither time was the health care issue even mentioned after the elections were over and NOTHING absolutely nothing was accomplished or even attempted!
Well, Bush and the Republicans did push through the Medicare Advantage plans. That success was in the Health Care arena. The Medicare eligible in America did get some minimal benefit from that legislation. But, the Insurance Companies got a HUGE profit boost from that legislation, which was the intent. But, in my opinion, that legislation could not be remotely considered reform.
[quote=TristansMommy;12320554
I'm not coming from any "mainstream press talking point" .. I hardly watch the mainstream press at all beyond getting news of what is happening locallly.
I could give two ****s about what any talking head on the TV is sayin. What I'm saying is coming from my own damned observations.
LOL. .. the best bill put forth was the one endorsed by Obama this past summer.
want to know why it died?
Because the GOP KNEW how powerful and good that piece of legislation was. They knew just how much that piece of legislation was going to change the game of health care in this country and was FINALLY going to put it BACK in our hands where it belongs.
They don't want that. AT ALL!. They have, from day one, done EVERYTHING they can to destroy the Obama presidency... this is from my observation.. and from listening to their constant (their being the GOP's) constant bull****.
The GOP decides to act like a bunch of whiny sore loosers standing in the corner basicallly turning their nose up at anything that comes. AS a result, in order to get anything done and past they have given power to a handful of rogue Senators who are ONLY looking at thier best interest, not that of their constituents or their fellow country men. [/QUOTE]
Just to repeat your own words just before the rant... I could give two ****s about what any talking head on the TV is sayin. What I'm saying is coming from my own damned observations.
Truthfully, and I'm not saying this to be mean, your entire post sounds like that's where it's coming from. I can tell you are angry about it, and I understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree that it's all GOP doing. For example:
You have extra money going to select states, you have WEAKEND.. yes WEAKEND consumer protections..
This was done by the Democrats because there were Democrats who did not like parts of the bill. The Dems are the ones whose votes had to be bought, therefore it is DEMS who "weakened" it.
Neither party is without fault. Let's be fair, about it.
You did make some very good points about the exchange etc., though I am against a public option and Medicare buy-in. And while you think anything is better than nothing, I think sometimes it's smart to start over because what you we get in this case may be worse than what we had. I don't get the sense that content was the priority. Just getting it passed - in any form - and in a hurry (for Obama) was the priority. We, the people, are an afterthought (if at all).
Just to repeat your own words just before the rant... I could give two ****s about what any talking head on the TV is sayin. What I'm saying is coming from my own damned observations.
Truthfully, and I'm not saying this to be mean, your entire post sounds like that's where it's coming from. I can tell you are angry about it, and I understand where you're coming from. I just don't agree that it's all GOP doing. For example:
You have extra money going to select states, you have WEAKEND.. yes WEAKEND consumer protections..
This was done by the Democrats because there were Democrats who did not like parts of the bill. The Dems are the ones whose votes had to be bought, therefore it is DEMS who "weakened" it.
Neither party is without fault. Let's be fair, about it.
You did make some very good points about the exchange etc., though I am against a public option and Medicare buy-in. And while you think anything is better than nothing, I think sometimes it's smart to start over because what you we get in this case may be worse than what we had. I don't get the sense that content was the priority. Just getting it passed - in any form - and in a hurry (for Obama) was the priority. We, the people, are an afterthought (if at all).
Starting over..LOL.. .. how many times can you start over.
There is no talking to a political party who's clear agenda is to stand in the way of any reform coming out of a majority controlled Democratic government with a Democratic President at the helm...
THE ONLY PARTY WHO HAS, in the last 8 years, even REMOTELY touched upon or attempted anything in regards to addressing hte problems of our health care systems..
Problems that have gotten only WORSE by having NOTHING passed when they BLOCKED (as well as teh lobbyist killed) the health care reform attempted in 94'.
It's 94 all over again!
The GOP plain and simple doesn't want it.. doesn't think we need it. .. otherwise they would have done something about it during their 8 year reign over our government.
We as supporters and opposers would get a great deal done if we knew what it was we were trying to fix. Are we trying to fix the cost of the healthcare or the type of healthcare?
The healthcare system now revolves around the private sector (supply and demand) and it seems the government is attemping to place a large portion of that into it's own hands. So in a sense the government is trying to socialize a system that is based off of a democracy. IMO, when dealing with governemt issues its seems to be the same old supply and demand game, "you supply the taxes I demand!".
For any adminastration to expect to devise a healthcare plan for hundreds of millions of its citizens in a matter of months is bull****. If our government wants to re-design the wheel it should have more than one political party involved and throw in all healthcare systems into the mix for reform. I would expect this process to take a few years not three months. In the engineering field it can take over four years to engineer/design a 40 million dollar project. Yet here we are expecting to get a 1 trillion dollar project on the table in six months. WTF? As I have stated before, I want healthcare reform too but don't "throw me a bone and say its a steak!"
We as supporters and opposers would get a great deal done if we knew what it was we were trying to fix. Are we trying to fix the cost of the healthcare or the type of healthcare?
The healthcare system now revolves around the private sector (supply and demand) and it seems the government is attemping to place a large portion of that into it's own hands. So in a sense the government is trying to socialize a system that is based off of a democracy. IMO, when dealing with governemt issues its seems to be the same old supply and demand game, "you supply the taxes I demand!".
For any adminastration to expect to devise a healthcare plan for hundreds of millions of its citizens in a matter of months is bull****. If our government wants to re-design the wheel it should have more than one political party involved and throw in all healthcare systems into the mix for reform. I would expect this process to take a few years not three months. In the engineering field it can take over four years to engineer/design a 40 million dollar project. Yet here we are expecting to get a 1 trillion dollar project on the table in six months. WTF? As I have stated before, I want healthcare reform too but don't "throw me a bone and say its a steak!"
(My opinion folks)
You are absolutely correct that a Health Care plan for so many millions should take several to years to devise. What you are seeing is the beginning of that process. What we eventually get to, it is my hope, will be a system where paying for care will be absent profit. A system that provides appropriate payment to those that provide that care. Those payments should reflect the rising expense of providing that care. Those payments should be significant enough to attract people to go into that industry. A system that does provide profit incentive for innovation, technology and research. This bill will not be the final legislation and solve all our problems in this area. It, as it should, will be an evolving process.
We as supporters and opposers would get a great deal done if we knew what it was we were trying to fix. Are we trying to fix the cost of the healthcare or the type of healthcare?
The healthcare system now revolves around the private sector (supply and demand) and it seems the government is attemping to place a large portion of that into it's own hands. So in a sense the government is trying to socialize a system that is based off of a democracy. IMO, when dealing with governemt issues its seems to be the same old supply and demand game, "you supply the taxes I demand!".
For any adminastration to expect to devise a healthcare plan for hundreds of millions of its citizens in a matter of months is bull****. If our government wants to re-design the wheel it should have more than one political party involved and throw in all healthcare systems into the mix for reform. I would expect this process to take a few years not three months. In the engineering field it can take over four years to engineer/design a 40 million dollar project. Yet here we are expecting to get a 1 trillion dollar project on the table in six months. WTF? As I have stated before, I want healthcare reform too but don't "throw me a bone and say its a steak!"
(My opinion folks)
I do respect what you are saying and it would seem to make a lot of sense.
However, I for one do not have 10 years to wait , nor do alot of people that are bankrupt or are dying becasue they can't get the treatment they need.
I get that it's complex. What angers me is that we have known about this problem for so very very long.. way before Clinton's administration.. and the Clinton admin is the last that actually tried to fix the system.
And that try failed miserably becasue the powers that be; ie: those that profit huge off the broken system, dont' want it. they have tons of influence money and power to make sure they get what they want. Irregardless of how it affects this country or it's people. as long as they get their huge business profits, what do they care.
WE could have been working on it for the last 8 years.. gradually bringing change to the system. BUT.. NOTHING has been done since Hillary was going for the push.. adn another plus decade went by and we have only seen our system grow worse, not better.
I would be willing for compromise, but that is difficult when one side of the issue doesn't see it as big of a problem as it truly is and refuses to come tot he table ..... and clearly the GOP wants it there way or no way.'Even when the President reached out.. etc.. they slapped his hand.
I've personally been waitinga long time for this debate to be even discussed....
You are absolutely correct that a Health Care plan for so many millions should take several to years to devise. What you are seeing is the beginning of that process. What we eventually get to, it is my hope, will be a system where paying for care will be absent profit. A system that provides appropriate payment to those that provide that care. Those payments should reflect the rising expense of providing that care. Those payments should be significant enough to attract people to go into that industry. A system that does provide profit incentive for innovation, technology and research. This bill will not be the final legislation and solve all our problems in this area. It, as it should, will be an evolving process.
I for one am still concerned the government will be running this(not that that's any worse than right now) and that they will try and scam you for extra money one way or another. There's already enough corruption going on.
I for one am still concerned the government will be running this(not that that's any worse than right now) and that they will try and scam you for extra money one way or another. There's already enough corruption going on.
You are certainly not alone in that concern. There is a lot of evidence of waste and corruption in Govt as well as in Govt run programs. I suspect there is a lot of evidence waste and corruption in privately run programs as well. That is a fact of life. Of course, one that Govt and Business should be diligent in efforts to prevent. Accountability for that in Govt, is in a lot of respects, up to us. We need to keep ourselves informed of what actually is occurring. Of course, making corrections in Govt takes a lot more time and can only be done thru election cycles or, in a minor way, regular communication with your Representatives. That is a condition we have had for a long time. As far a the Govt being able to improve in that area, I can attest, and have personally seen, significant improvement if the VA Health system over the past few years. So I know Govt run programs can clean up. Whether or not the planned clean up in Medicare will be accomplished, only time will tell.
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Well said!
