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And the reforms bush offered was a joke. Far weaker than anything we have now. As illustrated by other posters.
TM, first, YOU alleged, quite strongly and SPECIFICALLY that President Bush offered NOTHING, NOTHING at all. That Bush did not even think about Health-care.
Now, you are saying what he did offer was a "joke".
Which is it TM? Nothing as you have been saying, and saying and saying (even though a bunch of people here acknowledge that proof of Bush's proposals was provided to you numerous times) - OR, that you simply do not like what the Bush Administration offered?
TM, first, YOU alleged, quite strongly and SPECIFICALLY that President Bush offered NOTHING, NOTHING at all. That Bush did not even think about Health-care.
Now, you are saying what he did offer was a "joke".
Which is it TM? Nothing as you have been saying, and saying and saying (even though a bunch of people here acknowledge that proof of Bush's proposals was provided to you numerous times) - OR, that you simply do not like what the Bush Administration offered?
Which is it TM?
You cannot have it both ways?
Well clearly since you pointed to the fact he DID.. and I acknowledge that by saying that it was a freaking joke.
Great.. he offered.. and he offered crap. MIght as well been nothing...
And um.. why didn't the Republicans PUSH for it like the Dems are now. Seems if they had the majority, they could have pushed through "their" ideas as the Dems are doing..
Problem is,he threw a bone and tht was it. Wasn't anything he really cared pursue.
I'm a believer if you really want it to happen you make it happen...
Can't be here today anymore. I'm having a really really bad day and this is not helping... so.. chow for now.
Well clearly since you pointed to the fact he DID.. and I acknowledge that by saying that it was a freaking joke.
Great.. he offered.. and he offered crap. MIght as well been nothing...
And um.. why didn't the Republicans PUSH for it like the Dems are now. Seems if they had the majority, they could have pushed through "their" ideas as the Dems are doing..
Problem is,he threw a bone and tht was it. Wasn't anything he really cared pursue.
I'm a believer if you really want it to happen you make it happen...
Can't be here today anymore. I'm having a really really bad day and this is not helping... so.. chow for now.
What the dems are offering is simply crap and throwing it at the wall and hoping it sticks is not a fix. The biggest complaint I have with the repub party is that they try to be too nice when in power and make fatal mistakes of trying to include the demons on the left. I think this administration has hopefully taught the right some nasty tricks and lessons on inclusion. I hope the repubs are just as exclusive and tricksty when they get the ball back.
Face it, the republicans put forth a totally lame ass plan to deal with the health care delivery system, plain as day. Tort reform is not the answer to the problem, just a blip on the screen and the numbers prove it. Tort reform is just another way for insurance companies to limit payout just like they limit those payouts to those who get sick and Now need their services while they've been paying premiums for years. And as lawyers move and bob their way to sue a doctor, lawyers also put in place policies to deny care to the American people through their employer the insurance company. And then lobby Congress.
I agree that the legal system is next in line for overhauling.
We'll be here waiting when you get back TM. Waiting for the answer to my earlier post...since you have stated that the Bush/GOP proposals were a joke, crap and nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCyank
Now...which of these reform do you oppose...and why.
Quote:
-Buying insurance across state lines---something TM now seems to support
-Allowing individuals and small business to pool together to get group rates
-Simplify and computerize medical records
-Tax credits for individuals buying insurance
-Promoting and subsidizing HSA's for low income folks to buy their own insurance
-Tort reform
-Expanding and funding community health clinics
You are wrong. The bush administration did try to impose tort reform and started the medical savings plan. Savings is something that one seriously has to work on and I realize that may be impossible for some folks. But tort reform brought howls from the attorneys in the house and senate. God forbid we should straighten out our legal system. You are simply wrong in my humble opinion. One other little thing, the democrats lock the republicans out and will not include any of their suggestions. The lack of transparancey should scare the crap out of you because you may not like the next bill they pass in secrecy.
You know, some people post here, but I really wonder if they bother to read a thing that is written by others. I'll summarize what the facts show about "tort reform" and health care costs. I have a source for every point I make here. These sources are not lawyer propaganda. These sources include the Congressional Budget Office when Congress was under GOP control in 2004. They also include the Washington Post newspaper and some data I've gotten from a hospital's website. I ask those who have read this before to be patient. Some apparently don't get the message. Here's one final attempt:
1. Malpractice costs the healthcare system a little bit over 1% of the total dollars in the system. This is what you would save if you eliminated the whole liability system.
2. Overall health care costs rise at an average rate of 8% annually for hospital inpatient care and physician visits. They increase at the annual rate of 12% for prescription medications and outpatient services.
3. If reforms were made to the tort system including damage caps, abolition of the collateral source rule, and restrictions on attorney's fees a total savings of 1/2 of one-percent of all health expenditures would result.
4. The Congressional Budget Office has taken into consideration the practice of "defensive medicine" when it makes these calculations.
1% of Healthcare Costs
[Scroll down to the paragraph that begins "Effects on Defensive Medicine"]
George W. Bush did virtually nothing about the healthcare cost issue the entire time he was in office. It was clear his mind was elsewhere. He had two foreign wars to contend with and his other major preoccupation was cutting taxes for the wealthiest people in this country. His calls for "tort reform" were blatant political rhetoric. They were meant to appeal to supporters in the healthcare industry and the business community.
If Bush had gotten his way, we'd still have a big mess on our hands. No one would have noticed a 1/2 of one percent savings in healthcare expenditures if overall costs are rising at the rate of 8% or 10% per year. Nor, would they notice today a 1% savings if you totally eliminated a liability system and put everyone at the mercy of healthcare providers. ( It was a great day for this country when that nimcompoop loser Bush flew out of Washington for the last time)
Its ok, I totally expect some people here to continue saying tort reform is some kind of godsend or panacea when it comes to healthcare reform. Why? The people who advocate it already have the answers and don't want to be confused by any facts.
1% savings is a start and better than piling on even more costs. If this bill is such a godsend then why all the closed door meetings? What is in it besides the released data they allow you use as your talking points. You are right, Bush had more to think about and perhaps it was just talk but then again I have a feeling that it will be an even brighter day when this leadership takes a limo ride into the sunset.
1% savings is a start and better than piling on even more costs. If this bill is such a godsend then why all the closed door meetings? What is in it besides the released data they allow you use as your talking points. You are right, Bush had more to think about and perhaps it was just talk but then again I have a feeling that it will be an even brighter day when this leadership takes a limo ride into the sunset.
Here ya go, a little 1%, of taxpayer’s money. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/pelosi_climate_air_farce_Ffs6YfkXfxX3eTFJigpEaP
When our government is dealing with numbers like 2-15 trillion, what is $30,000 of a wage earner to them. They, our government, do not care about you or our families or me as an individual. These beings in the Senate or House of Reps do not live in the world we see, they live in a sheltered bubble looking out at us as if we were zoo animals and treat us the same way. Telling us what we can and cannot do telling us what we can or cannot have the whole time collecting the revenues like zoo administration does. To think they (our governing lawmakers) will make new laws that will empower us and shrink themselves is crazy. They are like wolves now, spoiled by the political lifestyle and poisoned by greed.
They will give us a healthcare plan that suits them more than us. You can bank on it.
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