*****Health Care Thread (part three)*****

[ManGoneADreamin]

Originally Posted by Snort

Where one was applied to businesses and gov't entities, this seems to apply to individuals. If I were self-employed and in good health, I may choose to forego buying health insurance for myself. Now, I can be threatened with a fine and jail time? This seems to take things quite a ways further.

It's the same though.

If you didn't pay your medicare, you would be fined/go to jail to..



This is why it is such hypocrisy with the 2 party system. The repubs say they don't want the public option but they say they want to keep medicare which is practically the same thing.

That is why we need a real 2 party system, not a fake one party system that is divided into two step brothers.

[Snort]

That is why we need a real 2 party system, not a fake one party system that is divided into two step brothers.

You may have something there! Not sure about all political items for discussion, but something to think about.

[DanoTex]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

it is practically the same..


if you work you are forced to buy medicare and social security.. those are both programs (ran by gov't), just like a public option is a program.. one could say that a public option would be more 'free' than medicare b.c you can choose to have private health insurance still and not pay for the public option directly (even though most HI companies will close down and raise costs for anyone remaining in private sector)

The difference being of course that SS and Medicare are both charity programs for the handicapped, widowed, orphaned, and elderly. You're paying for a charity program with no immediate benefit to the payer. At some point the Gov't will begin to apply means testing for these programs and you won't qualify unless you're in poverty.

Not quite the same as fining/jailing you if you don't buy a gov't approved health insurance policy.

Dano

[ManGoneADreamin]

Originally Posted by DanoTex

The difference being of course that SS and Medicare are both charity programs for the handicapped, widowed, orphaned, and elderly. You're paying for a charity program with no immediate benefit to the payer. At some point the Gov't will begin to apply means testing for these programs and you won't qualify unless you're in poverty.

Not quite the same as fining/jailing you if you don't buy a gov't approved health insurance policy.

Dano

no, you're wrong.. rich people get social security back, as well as medicare....

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

If you didn't pay your medicare, you would be fined/go to jail to..

Not necessarily true - there are ways to "opt out" of social security and medicare.

I did just that over 3 decades ago - have not paid into either in over 30 years. I can NEVER get social security or medicare.

Same options should be allowed with health insurance. NO ONE should be forced to have health insurance.

[DanoTex]

Originally Posted by ManGoneADreamin

no, you're wrong.. rich people get social security back, as well as medicare....

I think you missed this line: At some point the Gov't will begin to apply means testing for these programs and you won't qualify unless you're in poverty.

Clearer now?

Dano

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by DanoTex

The difference being of course that SS and Medicare are both charity programs for the handicapped, widowed, orphaned, and elderly. You're paying for a charity program with no immediate benefit to the payer. At some point the Gov't will begin to apply means testing for these programs and you won't qualify unless you're in poverty.

Not quite the same as fining/jailing you if you don't buy a gov't approved health insurance policy.

Dano

SS and Medicare are not "charity". You have to have paid in to qualify. You're confusing them with welfare/medicaid.

[GOPATTA2D]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

I do not believe that.. I believe you are wrong. If it is more expensive, then I will take the private option..... But if it were going to be more expensive..then there is no point...

I believe people are just blowing smoke about it being more expensive to get public opinion away from public option and the health care bill... Which is not very constructive at all..

but no surprise..nothing the Republicans have done in the last 8 or so years has been constructive.

The CBO has already concluded that the public option will cost more. Pelosi has stated the same. Despite all the rhetoric, many people still think they are going to get free care. The only ones who will get it free already qualify for free care. You will get your insurance: The House just passed a Bill that forces you to buy it. I'm afraid you will be shocked when you get the bill.

[DanoTex]

Originally Posted by Katiana

SS and Medicare are not "charity". You have to have paid in to qualify. You're confusing them with welfare/medicaid.

I do understand the difference. Perhaps I should have said; IMO The difference being of course that SS and Medicare are both participatory charity programs for the handicapped, widowed, orphaned, and elderly. You're paying for a charity program with no immediate benefit to the payer.

Part of the basis of my opinion is that the original intent was to " an attempt to limit what were seen as dangers in the modern American life, including old age, poverty, unemployment, and the burdens of widows and fatherless children." Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A pig is a pig even when you call it a dog. It's a transfer of funds from one group (young) to another group (elderly, poor, widows). With declining payers and increasing numbers of recipients - at some point it will be have to be means tested (become needs based) and then we can actually call it a 'public assistance' program. The alternative is to continue to raise the tax rates on folks still working or reduce benefits to recipients.

IMO there's something inherently evil about taking money from the wages of several families struggling to make it on $40,000 a year and paying it to someone with a retirement income of $100,000 a year.

Dano

[florida.bob]

If you are for an effective reform bill, let your Senators know, repeatedly. Get as many other people to do the same. This is your chance to affect the outcome. There was one Republican that voted for the benefit of the people. Imagine that! Who knows, maybe some Repub Senators will act as responsibly and choose to act on what's best for us, not what's best for their campaign chests.