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Old 12-16-2009, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Yes
2,667 posts, read 6,755,267 times
Reputation: 908

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You cannot win a war in the first battle. Get this thing passed and then work to keep improving the system as the years pass. The initial battle has to be won, however.

It would be a complete shame for this not to pass - and the public still be stuck with pre-existing bs.

 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:32 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,764,196 times
Reputation: 9283
I think its a great health care plan so far.... it will insure the uninsured and reform the bad practices of insurance companies... WHAT ELSE ARE YOU LOOKING FOR??? A free ride? hahaha... you are not getting one... socialist... gotta hate them...
 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:33 AM
 
4,814 posts, read 3,826,600 times
Reputation: 1115
First time I have ever agreed with Howard Dean - "You have the vast majority of Americans want the choices, they want real choices. They don’t have them in this bill. This is not health care reform and it’s not close to health care reform."

Quote:
But the President leaves out this all important caveat in the CBO’s report: “In the subsequent decade, the collective effect of its provisions would probably be small reductions in federal budget deficits if all of the provisions continued to be fully implemented.” But nobody believes that all of the provisions in the bill will be fully implemented. For example, the Senate bill includes a 20% cut in the payments Medicare sets for doctors. Nobody believes these cuts will be allowed to happen. By changing just that provision, Obamacare ends up adding (http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/3716943:5438151427:m:N:158499287:BC3BC852DD78957B2 228AD63AB9B8D5B - broken link)$196 billion (http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/3716943:5438151427:m:N:158499287:BC3BC852DD78957B2 228AD63AB9B8D5B - broken link)to the deficit in the first 10 years and $765 billion in the second decade. (http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/3716943:5438151427:m:N:158499287:BC3BC852DD78957B2 228AD63AB9B8D5B - broken link)

The American people already do not trust President Obama’s health care claims. Just today, the Washington Post released a poll finding that 51% of adults oppose Obamacare, with 40% in strong opposition. Meanwhile only 44% support the bill with only 25% feeling strongly about it. Digging deeper we find that 66% of Americans believe Obamacare will increase the federal budget deficit, 53% believe it will cause their own health care to cost more, 55% believe it will increase the country’s health care costs overall, and 50% believe it will not improve their quality of care. These findings echo an earlier CNN poll which found that 61% of Americans opposed Obamacare, with 79% believing it would add to the deficit and 85% believing it would raise their taxes.

Morning Bell: Howard Dean Is Right, This Is Not Health Care Reform


 
Old 12-16-2009, 09:47 AM
 
14,333 posts, read 14,137,407 times
Reputation: 45575
Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill


Majority of Americans Still Not Backing Healthcare Bill

.................................................. ............................................

Jadex,

Its precisely because of the misinformation that people like you have continually tried to inject into this healthcare debate that most people are truly confused about the healthcare bill. Reforming a sector of our economy that now accounts for 16% of our total GNP is not simple.

You done a good job of telling us what you are against. What I am less clear about is what the Obama opponents are for. If things keep up the way they have your agenda seems to be something like this:

1. An ever bigger healthcare sector of our economy which in just a few years will jump from 16% of our economy to over 20% without stopping there.

2. Ever more people becoming uninsured because their employers can no longer afford health insurance. Since the ranks of the uninsured grow at about 2 million a year, we can plan on another 40 million without health insurance in 20 years. (if it doesn't get worse)

3. Our companies becoming less and less competitive with companies based in foreign countries that have affordable healthcare systems. Our trade deficit continuing to rise. As a consequence, our dollar becoming ever weaker abroad. Our country having less and less influence in the world.

4. Healthcare costs that continue to rise at a rate 3 X the rate of inflation until the system simply collapses because it can't keep absorbing that.

Far from representing some "radical agenda" the Obama Plan has the backing of the American Medical Association, The American Association of Retired Persons, and the American Nursing Association to name just a few. This isn't some conspiracy being rammed down our throats. This is reform being pressed by those organizations in this country most knowledgable about the problems with health care and health insurance.

However, Boehner and McConnell and 99% of the GOP Congress have resisted every attempt at reform. Its much easier for them to say what they are against rather than what they are for.

We'll see how the final stages of this debate play out. I still think we are ready for change.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 10:39 AM
 
7,895 posts, read 9,085,262 times
Reputation: 9213
Regarding the above post:

1. What does this bill do specifically to lower the percent of our economy spent on healthcare? 36 million people are to be added to the ranks of the insured, the vast majority of them subsididized ;he bottom 8% of earners placed on the alraedy unsustainable state medicaid plans.

2. Small employers whuich make up at least 60% of the jobs in the country will have the option of paying a $750 penalty in lieu of offering health benefits. Which one do you think they will chose?

3 Since we will not go single payer with this bill, it will have no effect on companies being able to better compete globally.

4. Eliminating preexisting conditions will make premiums rise. Happened in every state where this was tried. I can personally vouch for a huge increase in premiums in NY since this was done.

This bill, being stripped of Medicare buy in and public option is a waste of ink. Just full o fpork for minority nursing students and community centers, in addition to great money making potential for insurance and drug companies.

Bottom line, to save money EVERYONE must be forced to buy a plan. $750 a year fee is not a strong enough deterrent. States should have the right to approve and set premium rates. People with extraordinary plans shoul dhave to pay tax on it, NOT the insurance companies, otherwise the expense just gets passed along to others' premiums.

Blow up this plan. Start anew. Start simple. It shouldn't take 2,000 pages on handouts to insurance and drug companies, unions, and affirmative action programs to get reform started. This is supposed to be about HEALTH CARE, not about politically connected handouts.

Don't just pass aturd bill because you promised you'd deliver something , anything during Obama's first year.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,635,204 times
Reputation: 5131
Brief report on the news this morning: Dems have blocked legislation that would allow the importation of less expensive drugs from Canada because -- get this -- because Obama needs the support of the pharmaceutical companies for the health care bill. Big Pharma doesn't want to have to lower their drug prices in the U.S., and the Democrats are ensuring that they won't have to.

So much for looking out for us.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,746,192 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Brief report on the news this morning: Dems have blocked legislation that would allow the importation of less expensive drugs from Canada because -- get this -- because Obama needs the support of the pharmaceutical companies for the health care bill. Big Pharma doesn't want to have to lower their drug prices in the U.S., and the Democrats are ensuring that they won't have to.

So much for looking out for us.
Most Democrats haven't been "for the people" in quite some time.
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
15,318 posts, read 17,161,187 times
Reputation: 6959
Senator Tom Coburn (R-OK) has requested that Senator Sanders' (I-VT) amendment be read aloud by the reading clerk.

GOP senator forces reading of 767-page amendment - Washington Times

If you're extremely bored...or if you're suffering from insomnia, here's your cure: http://c-span.org/pdf/sanders_amend_2837.pdf
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:15 PM
 
Location: South Fla
9,644 posts, read 9,816,514 times
Reputation: 1942
This weekend, the Congressional Budget Office released “a very strange memo” titled, “Budgetary Treatment of Proposals to Regulate Medical Loss Ratios.” You wouldn’t know it from the title, but that little memo is the smoking gun that shows how congressional Democrats have very carefully hidden more than half the cost of their health care bills.

Bland CBO Memo, or Smoking Gun? | Cato @ Liberty
 
Old 12-16-2009, 12:23 PM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,014,136 times
Reputation: 2949
I've just emailed all of the representatives of my state regarding the vote on Health Care reform.

If you haven't already, let your voice be heard today.

It may be too late to do any good but it just may make a difference.

Even if it doesn't do any good, I was able to get my real feelings off my chest about how things are being handled and the future of the Republican party.

Some of these politicians are so full of themselves and the attention that they are getting right now that they seem to have lost focus on who they represent and who put them in office.

Some of them need not to be re-elected.
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