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Old 12-22-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,663,718 times
Reputation: 5131

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Well, it looks like the Advantage Plans are going away, which is what Obama wanted from the get-go. Thank you for throwing the seniors under that bus, Mr. President.

Just 3 states left with a plan for seniors that gives them affordable coverage. Sweet. Why do they count, and the rest of the country doesn't?

Talk about the Federal subsidies to Advantage Plans as being unfair. Actually, I've never heard of the amounts you mention. The numbers I've been able to find are $600-1200 per individual. Every company that offers Advantage Plans is required by the feds to offer a "0 cost" plan. Those plans are very basic, stripped down, but suitable for the elderly who are in good health and willing to take their chances.

In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if we find that it costs us just as much with or without Advantage Plans. I've yet to see the government's ability to SAVE money on anything and I don't expect that to change any time soon. There's talk about subsidizing the cost of medical education to encourage more people to enter the field, possibly even paying for their education so that they don't end up with large education loans when they are graduated. WHO do you think is going to pay for that?

As far as seniors go, this is a travesty. It means that seniors will be required to buy supplemental insurance at 2-3 times the cost of what they paid for Advantage plans, and many won't be able to afford that. It could put them on Medicaid. Hmmmm...Nice way for the Federal government to shift the cost to the states!

I think Washington will find out that seniors have the time, and will vote in droves come mid term elections, and thereafter.

Last edited by swbtoo; 12-22-2009 at 08:21 AM..

 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:14 AM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,028,267 times
Reputation: 2949
The republicans on this board surely have it all figured out.

One thing's for sure, they don't really care if YOU have insurance or not. They don't care if paying for YOUR health insurance costs you everything you own.

In fact, if you have a health issue... it's probably your fault and you therefore deserve to sell everything you've worked so hard for just to keep up on your health insurance premiums.

They were probably all in church yesterday thanking God for all they have and praying against this bill.

I bet their hero in A Christmas Carol is Ebenezer Scrooge.

bah humbug
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,329,907 times
Reputation: 27718
Another pork laden bill full of special interest projects and money channeling.
And they call this reform ? And we're all expected to pay for this ?

Health bill money for hospital sought by Dodd - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002956.html - broken link)

"A $100 million item for construction of a university hospital was inserted in the Senate health care bill at the request of Sen. Christopher Dodd.
..
The provision is included in a 383-page series of changes to the health care bill that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., outlined Saturday. Scattered throughout are numerous items sought by individual lawmakers, many of them directing money explicitly to programs or projects in their home states."
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:24 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,405,802 times
Reputation: 4798
Why would you treat a symptom of a disease/sickness and not the disease/sickness itself? It makes no sense. Health insurance would go down if health care cost went down. Instead we get health insurance staying the same but now it includes 30 million more people. Surely even the people horrible at math could manage that equation.

There is another side to "they don't really care if YOU have insurance or not" and it's who's going to have insurance -since half the nation will be on federal assistance- when the Federal government goes bankrupt.

Passion has to come together with reason for it to realize a viable solution. You can have too much of either one and both are devastating.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:25 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,405,802 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Another pork laden bill full of special interest projects and money channeling.
And they call this reform ? And we're all expected to pay for this ?

Health bill money for hospital sought by Dodd - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/20/AR2009122002956.html - broken link)

"A $100 million item for construction of a university hospital was inserted in the Senate health care bill at the request of Sen. Christopher Dodd.
..
The provision is included in a 383-page series of changes to the health care bill that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., outlined Saturday. Scattered throughout are numerous items sought by individual lawmakers, many of them directing money explicitly to programs or projects in their home states."
What's bad is now, because of the size of the bill, they've come to the conclusion that $100 million here and $100 million there is nothing compared to the trillions being spent, so why not? That's a very scary slippery slope.
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,329,907 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post

Passion has to come together with reason for it to realize a viable solution. You can have too much of either one and both are devastating.
Reason is gone out the window. You see, the government has found out that they can just "create" money now whenever they want and then raise taxes on the rich. How many spending bills can one pass with this reasoning ? How long can this go on ?



“When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic.”
Benjamin Franklin

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually
run out of other people’s money.”
Margaret Thatcher
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:28 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,663,718 times
Reputation: 5131
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
What's bad is now, because of the size of the bill, they've come to the conclusion that $100 million here and $100 million there is nothing compared to the trillions being spent, so why not? That's a very scary slippery slope.
I know. I was thinking the same thing just the other day. Our politicians are so used to throwing that kind of money around that they feel it's no big deal. It's like using a credit card. It's plastic, so you don't really feel that you're actually counting out real money. They are handing out the money like it's play money.

That IS a scary slippery slope (and they've lost their footing).
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,825,162 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Well, it looks like the Advantage Plans are going away, which is what Obama wanted from the get-go. Thank you for throwing the seniors under that bus, Mr. President.

Just 3 states left with a plan for seniors that gives them affordable coverage. Sweet. Why do they count, and the rest of the country doesn't?

Talk about the Federal subsidies to Advantage Plans as being unfair. Actually, I've never heard of the amounts you mention. The numbers I've been able to find are $600-1200 per individual. Every company that offers Advantage Plans is required by the feds to offer a "0 cost" plan. Those plans are very basic, stripped down, but suitable for the elderly who are in good health and willing to take their chances.

In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if we find that it costs us just as much with or without Advantage Plans. I've yet to see the government's ability to SAVE money on anything and I don't expect that to change any time soon. There's talk about subsidizing the cost of medical education to encourage more people to enter the field, possibly even paying for their education so that they don't end up with large education loans when they are graduated. WHO do you think is going to pay for that?

As far as seniors go, this is a travesty. It means that seniors will be required to buy supplemental insurance at 2-3 times the cost of what they paid for Advantage plans, and many won't be able to afford that. It could put them on Medicaid. Hmmmm...Nice way for the Federal government to shift the cost to the states!

I think Washington will find out that seniors have the time, and will vote in droves come mid term elections, and thereafter.
I am not quite sure what you see so advantageous about Advantage plans. It is true that in many cases, those plans can cost nothing to the insured. Worst case, it would cost $96.40/month. The actual extensions of what is covered over basic Medicare, is minimal and certainly not worth cost of the Federal subsidy. It would be overall a lot cheaper to just extend the Medicare coverage to include these perks, and do away with the Advantage plans. That would reduce Medicare costs significantly. However, Ins. Cos. would lose a big cash cow. Our representatives are going to be resistant to doing that. Both Dems and Repubs get major campaign funding from the Ins. Industry. That is just the political reality!
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:53 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,663,718 times
Reputation: 5131
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Reason is gone out the window. You see, the government has found out that they can just "create" money now whenever they want and then raise taxes on the rich. How many spending bills can one pass with this reasoning ? How long can this go on ?



“When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic.”
Benjamin Franklin

“The problem with socialism is that you eventually
run out of other people’s money.”
Margaret Thatcher
http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...our-house.html
 
Old 12-22-2009, 08:56 AM
 
20,187 posts, read 23,809,642 times
Reputation: 9283
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
You think these FOREVER bribes are actually forever, you haven't been paying attention to what goes on in Congress. Many of these "deals" just seem to disappear. The purpose of many, is just to score political points at home and they rely on the short memory of constituents.
Yes I do think they are forever because by LAW they are forever... in a lawsuit happy society... I be willing to bet they will be forever... I don't know how they are just going to "disappear" because it will require an amendment to that legislation for it to disappear and given the clout of senior citizens in three states (especially Florida), I don't see how it EVER is going to disappear...
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