A lifestyle - BDSM (dollars, support, homosexual, San Francisco)

[LibertyandJusticeforAll]

Originally Posted by groar

there are bdsm clubs.

it's not my thing but as long as it's practiced by consenting adults, i have no problem with it.

comparing a fetish to a sexual orientation is inaccurate in any case.

Why is that appears to me this "fetish" seems to have the same type of issues as people who want to be openly gay and or etc. What about the crossers... tranny etc is that a choice or are we going to say they are like gay people and are "born that way". I am starting to form alot of ideas that most of the so called lifestyle choices and sexual orientations are often choices not born into it. I'm not saying you do not have tendancies but I also would like to know how we explain the millions of people who are bi-sexual. Is bi-sexually a choice and can they marry a man and a women together. Sexual fetishes can be just as important to many want to comes to partners and your lifestyle and who you love. BDSM also is not a fetish even if wikipedia says it is.

[bellalunatic]

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

I know and many get "shutdown" due to public pressure.

Really? Where? I can think of more than a handful that have been up and running for at least a decade or so...

it's not the BDSM that's 'illegal', but the business transaction ($$$ for services, and no it's not sex) that is. FYI. (at least not here in CA.)

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

Why is that appears to me this "fetish" seems to have the same type of issues as people who want to be openly gay and or etc.

What sort of "issues" are you talking about? If you want to live an "openly BDSM lifestyle" (I suppose, wearing leather and walking around with riding crops).... who cares? As long as you don't have sex outside of spaces designated for sex, society should have no problem with it. Nobody prevents people who engage in BDSM from marrying (unless it's gay BDSM), and nobody will know you engage in BDSM unless you tell them. It's unlike gays and lesbians who cannot even talk about their significant others at work without "broadcasting" their sexuality.

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

What about the crossers... tranny etc is that a choice

It's a choice to act on any desire you have inside of you, but I don't think people CHOOSE to be transsexual. Cross dressers are often heterosexual men who like women's clothing. A choice? Probably not, if you think about it. A choice to ACT on it, yes.

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

I am starting to form alot of ideas that most of the so called lifestyle choices and sexual orientations are often choices not born into it. I'm not saying you do not have tendancies but I also would like to know how we explain the millions of people who are bi-sexual.

What? Bisexuality is an UNCHOSEN sexuality. It just "happens."

You are making a common mistake. "Sexuality" and "sexual behavior" are two different things. You can be gay and engage in straight sex acts, just as you can be straight and engage in gay sex acts.

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

Is bi-sexually a choice and can they marry a man and a women together.

Since marriage should be a contract between TWO people for the purposes of making things easy for the government benefits that go along with marriage, then no, they should pick one. If they want to be "spiritually" married/committed, etc. to three or five people, that is a different story.

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

Sexual fetishes can be just as important to many want to comes to partners and your lifestyle and who you love. BDSM also is not a fetish even if wikipedia says it is.

How is BDSM not a fetish? It's like the poster child for fetishes.

[groar]

Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll

Why is that appears to me this "fetish" seems to have the same type of issues as people who want to be openly gay and or etc. What about the crossers... tranny etc is that a choice or are we going to say they are like gay people and are "born that way". I am starting to form alot of ideas that most of the so called lifestyle choices and sexual orientations are often choices not born into it. I'm not saying you do not have tendancies but I also would like to know how we explain the millions of people who are bi-sexual. Is bi-sexually a choice and can they marry a man and a women together. Sexual fetishes can be just as important to many want to comes to partners and your lifestyle and who you love. BDSM also is not a fetish even if wikipedia says it is.

being bisexual is not a choice. the choice comes into it if you decide to stick with one gender or another as a bisexual. marry a man and woman together? being bisexual doesn't mean you constantly have to be having sex with both men and women, contrary to what the jerry springer show might teach us. it just means that you are attracted to both genders and might have a sexual relationship with a person of either gender at any given time.

a completely gay person could choose to sleep with or marry someone of the opposite gender, but they can't choose who they're attracted to any more than you can. and odds are they would be miserable and so would their spouse.

i don't think that being transgendered is a choice - deciding to live as a gender other than your physical one, whether or not that involves surgery, is a choice, but it's an understandable one for people whose bodies are the wrong gender.

i don't see how bdsm, whether you call it a lifestyle or a fetish, has the same issues as homosexuality. straight people who are into bdsm can get married, they can introduce people to their partners and whatnot, and no one knows or cares what they get up to in the bedroom unless they choose to make that information public. if you're gay, and you introduce people to your same sex partner, people know you're gay and judge you accordingly.

[LibertyandJusticeforAll]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

What sort of "issues" are you talking about? If you want to live an "openly BDSM lifestyle" (I suppose, wearing leather and walking around with riding crops).... who cares? As long as you don't have sex outside of spaces designated for sex, society should have no problem with it. Nobody prevents people who engage in BDSM from marrying (unless it's gay BDSM), and nobody will know you engage in BDSM unless you tell them. It's unlike gays and lesbians who cannot even talk about their significant others at work without "broadcasting" their sexuality.




It's a choice to act on any desire you have inside of you, but I don't think people CHOOSE to be transsexual. Cross dressers are often heterosexual men who like women's clothing. A choice? Probably not, if you think about it. A choice to ACT on it, yes.



What? Bisexuality is an UNCHOSEN sexuality. It just "happens."

You are making a common mistake. "Sexuality" and "sexual behavior" are two different things. You can be gay and engage in straight sex acts, just as you can be straight and engage in gay sex acts.



Since marriage should be a contract between TWO people for the purposes of making things easy for the government benefits that go along with marriage, then no, they should pick one. If they want to be "spiritually" married/committed, etc. to three or five people, that is a different story.



How is BDSM not a fetish? It's like the poster child for fetishes.

In response to this.. if your telling me the same bible bashing idiots and the feminist are some how supportive of the lifesytle.. as in master/slave not just the sex part of it then clearly you must think we have some open minded people. Bdsm is bondage displine sado mashocism.. while many things are a part of that term fetish just happen to fall into them but in no way does it define relationships.

[camping!]

Look, I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes/hotels. I just don't want to see it. I don't care if its two straight, two gay, or god help me a man and his plushie -- I do not want to see it.

Now, a couple that needs a riding crop and rubber headwear to get it on is a lot different then a gay couple that want to get married. I mean - one can keep the fetish gear in thier home and hell, set up a blog to talk about it if they wanted to. To be gay is the same as being straight - it is what it is, and it's not necessarily about sex.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by camping!

Look, I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes/hotels. I just don't want to see it. I don't care if its two straight, two gay, or god help me a man and his plushie -- I do not want to see it.

Now, a couple that needs a riding crop and rubber headwear to get it on is a lot different then a gay couple that want to get married. I mean - one can keep the fetish gear in thier home and hell, set up a blog to talk about it if they wanted to. To be gay is the same as being straight - it is what it is, and it's not necessarily about sex.

Should one always be required to wear a big white wedding dress to make gay marriage legal?

[camping!]

Originally Posted by ergohead

Should one always be required to wear a big white wedding dress to make gay marriage legal?

What?
Do you mean that in order to be married part of the couple must look like a meringue? Or that it should be socially acceptable to wear the honeymoon special done the aisle?

Seriously not getting what you are asking......

[cuebald]

Originally Posted by bellalunatic

Really? Where? I can think of more than a handful that have been up and running for at least a decade or so...

it's not the BDSM that's 'illegal', but the business transaction ($$$ for services, and no it's not sex) that is. FYI. (at least not here in CA.)

Southwestern Manhattan is full of them.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by camping!

What?
Do you mean that in order to be married part of the couple must look like a meringue? Or that it should be socially acceptable to wear the honeymoon special done the aisle?

Seriously not getting what you are asking......

It's the word. "Marriage" has a religious root and tradition as it's definition.

The definition does not fit same sex relationships, or the identities of the oh-so conjoined.

So, if it is make-believe-copy, then shouldn't there be a wedding dress?

For it to be a marriage, wouldn't there have to be a Mr. and Mrs.?

Mz., Mzr.?

I see "gay marriage" as an invasive term.

"Gay marriage" is language trespass, and tradition trespass.

Let's call hydrogen and oxygen water, and carbon and oxygen something else. Though both are bonded in "love", they are still different.

Join a union, but don't insist that by doing so you have somehow become "management".

I see nothing wrong with a wealthy man leaving his estate to his dog with specifications on it's care and upkeep, but I object to the relationship being legally classified as a dog-man marriage. So I would ask the same question, "which one wears the wedding dress"?