Should Health Insurance be Mandatory? (Obama, dollar, carry, money)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by NCyank

IF insurance is available/affordable to all then there is really no excuse.
I see two options, mandate insurance or let people live with the consequences of not having it.

The first I find to be objectionable as the feds don't have any constitutional power to make such a mandate, neither do most states under their constitutions (that would be easier to change).

Most Americans don't have the stomach for the latter but IF we only gave life saving treatment for emergencies and minimal treatment for non-emergencies to those who chose not to have insurance I suspect it would only be a short time before people came around to making the 'right' decision on the matter.

If you were in a car wreck and got your leg mangled up and a simple amputation would save your life then that's all you get unless you can pay cash for something more. They don't try to reattach the limb or do complicated and expensive nerve/muscle/bone repair unless you have insurance or cash money. Now, wouldn't you choose to have insurance??

As too your last paragraph, I'm not sure, would they try to re-attach the leg or just cut it off to save your life? That would probably depend on whether they were able to ask you if you had health insurance when you came in, assuming you were concous

For example, if you go to a clinic and get diagnosed with Cancer, you don't have insurance you are not going to get chemo unless you can pay for it.


That's just one example..

[GOPATTA2D]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

And do you really believe that a person with no insurance that walks into the ER in cardiac arrest is going to be "pitched" to the curb?

We could do that now and don't. As many have pointed out when someone is in that distress you can't ask them "do you have insurance" when they are unconcious.

And, if they went without insurance and find themselves suddenly ill and needing it, all they would have to do is call up an insurance company the next day and sign up.. because pre-existing condition clauses were lifted.

Believe me , you will then be supplementing their care because now their treatment will be needed which will be much more than the premuims. At least if it had been mandated they wuold have been paying INTO the insurance before withdrawing so much.

And.. currently you are subsidizing the uninsured right now. in raised cost to cover losses for the uninsured, and with tax dollars that subsidize facilities that end up giving uncompensated care (I believe the government subsidized 20% of unsubsidized care in hospitals.. something like that, although I could be off on that)

Slow down and read it again. It was a hypothetical statement regarding insurance: "Assuming it is available equally to all" . That means all barriers have been lifted. There is no such thing as a pre-existing condition. It is the same as no-fault insurance. In other words, if two cars get in a wreck, each driver's insurance pays for the damage. If I don't have insurance, I am responsible for fixing my car.

If we remove all barriers to the health insurance pool, the only reason one would not insure themselves is cost. They either choose to spend their money elsewhere or they are capable of self-insuring.

My position under this scenario is to let them pay or deny them treatment. If there is no consequence, and we provide a public safety net, we will end up with the system we have now. I thought you guys wanted to reform it?

Since I'm not without compassion, we can treat their cardiac arrest, get them stabilized, and at the point we determine they don't have insurance then we pitch them to the curb.

[NCyank]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

As too your last paragraph, I'm not sure, would they try to re-attach the leg or just cut it off to save your life? That would probably depend on whether they were able to ask you if you had health insurance when you came in, assuming you were concous

For example, if you go to a clinic and get diagnosed with Cancer, you don't have insurance you are not going to get chemo unless you can pay for it.


That's just one example..

It's listed on your drivers license if you are an organ donor, insurance information could be listed there as well or with your vehicle registration, ....or it could be included in the information on the microchip the government implants when you get your H1N1 vaccine, lol.

Sure, some people who are unconscious and without ID might get lucky and get to keep their legs...but you get the idea. If they wake up and it turns out they don't have insurance or money...we can repo the leg.

[padcrasher]

" Let Americans decide for themselves"

And when they get really sick they will show up at the emergency room and the hospital will pass all their unpaid charges on to those that are insured.

That's the ticket!

[Greatday]

Honestly, I am very tired of the car insurance and health insurance comparisons. It is an Apple and Fruitcake comparison.

Driving is voluntary. Driving is not necessary. It is completely optional. One makes a conscious, voluntary decision to own a motor vehicle. And, part of that decision includes the necessity of purchasing health insurance. And although they purchase insurance, there are options as to how much insurance coverage to acquire.

However, I can make a decision NEVER GO TO A DOCTOR IN MY LIFE. Think about, it is totally optional if I want to go to a doctor. Oh, I know, someone here will say "but if you do not, you will die". Yep. Maybe that is true. But, it is my choice.

If I want health insurance, I have the RIGHT to acquire insurance. I have the RIGHT to decide what kinds and how much insurance to get.

The decision to get Health Insurance should be strictly voluntary. As we have seen, a vast majority will acquire health insurance. Those that don't, pay as they go. If they decide not to get insurance, and they get sick, some decisions will certainly have to be made.

But, Insurance should REMAIN totally and completely voluntary. It should NEVER be FORCED on Americans by our Government. Our Government works for Americans - not the other way around.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D

Slow down and read it again. It was a hypothetical statement regarding insurance: "Assuming it is available equally to all" . That means all barriers have been lifted. There is no such thing as a pre-existing condition. It is the same as no-fault insurance. In other words, if two cars get in a wreck, each driver's insurance pays for the damage. If I don't have insurance, I am responsible for fixing my car.

If we remove all barriers to the health insurance pool, the only reason one would not insure themselves is cost. They either choose to spend their money elsewhere or they are capable of self-insuring.

My position under this scenario is to let them pay or deny them treatment. If there is no consequence, and we provide a public safety net, we will end up with the system we have now. I thought you guys wanted to reform it?

Since I'm not without compassion, we can treat their cardiac arrest, get them stabilized, and at the point we determine they don't have insurance then we pitch them to the curb.

That will never happen.. never. If that were the case, if it were possible to do it, we would be doing it already.

I say it's just easier to make it a financial penalty if you don't pay .. and that "penalty" should you choose NOT to have insurance goes into a pool so that if you DO end up getting treatment and default, the government has the money to subsidize that non payment from the person that didn't have insurance.... in a way, by having paid the penalty they would have paid for their treatment through the penalty /fine they paid that went into that "pool"....

And.. their are consequences to defaulting.. poor credit rating, having to file bankruptcy etc. Accept now IF you fall into that category AND all bundaries are removed, as you stated (pre-existing condition, costs that are out of reach, etc).. then they only have themselves to blame for being financially ruined and NOT the system.

As it stands now.. COST is a HUGE block to actually getting coverage.. including pre-existing conditions.

However, in order to remove all blockades, unless prices come down, subsidizing those that can't otherwise afford the high cost of insurance.. as cost IS a legitimate block to health coverage...

This is why I believe ina public option as well.. because I beleive that it can be provided at lower premums to people who can't afford private insurance coverage... but do not yet qualify for medicaid.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

As too your last paragraph, I'm not sure, would they try to re-attach the leg or just cut it off to save your life? That would probably depend on whether they were able to ask you if you had health insurance when you came in, assuming you were concous

For example, if you go to a clinic and get diagnosed with Cancer, you don't have insurance you are not going to get chemo unless you can pay for it.


That's just one example..

Can we stay on topic PLEASE!

We are not talking about surgical procedures

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Because I'm human.. and every life matters.. not based on whether they ahve insurance or not. ANd.. see my post above about NOT having insurance..

NOT having insurance DOES affect everyone else around you.. because in a life threatening situation you WILL get teh care and most likely will not be able to pay (unless you have deep pockets and that makes you the acception, not the norm).. Do you think that the hospitals / providers just shrug it off..LOL.. um.. NO..they raise the prices across the board to make up the losses.

Hospitals alone lose about 37B a year in uncompensated care!

Great, you care for me soo much that you are willing to cut a check for my care.

Where should I send the bill to?

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Can we stay on topic PLEASE!

We are not talking about surgical procedures

LOL. um.. surgical procedures fall under the health care issue.. LOL.. It is most certainly ON TOPIC!!!

And. .. you're tired of the comparison to Car insurance ..

Well I'm tired of right wing, conservatives and all those opposed to health care reform or portions of it, comparing health care and access to it to BMW's and houses!!

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by mohawkx

Very good point. Driving is a privlidge. Ins. Cos. can boost your premiums or drop your coverage depending on your record. But living is a right all people have, not a privlidge. No insurance company should have the right to decide you life.

So you want to abolish all insurance than? That is an interesting proposal..

Not what you meant? Then who do you think would be better suited to decide your life? The government? The individuals that give you a number and could care less what your name is?

Seriously, if not the insurance companies, who would be better suited to decide your life if not yourself?