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It's a clear pattern. I have seen it over and over again on this forum.
A poster starts an obviously anti-Israel thread by using a very provocative title. The purpose is not to initiate a constructive dialogue, but to call out the dogs. Yes, the ANTI-SEMITES whose purpose is only to de-legitimize Israel's existence, isolate her, and ultimately destroy her.
There are at least two participants in this thread who I know have been cited for anti-semitism by the moderators. This one has all but admitted it.
Criticism of a policy of the government of Israel with the purpose of bettering the chances for peace is of course completely acceptable (Israel is a free-wheeling democracy and it's done there all the time). But the hateful and extreme remarks being posted on these threads are only meant to incite and are a use of this forum for destructive purposes.
Unfortunately the internet can be used for good and bad. What we see in this thread reminds us that there a lot of hate out there. It's shameful.
The man bemoans the fact we can't have "constructive dialogue" then one sentence later drops the "anti-semite" bomb accusing us of wanting to to destroy Israel.
This tactic among Israeli apologists is as old as Israel itself.
Glenn Greenwald explains how it's done.
"Anyone who criticizes the actions of the Israeli Government will, for that reason alone, have "anti-Semite" tossed in their vicinity and attached to their name (just as those who criticized the actions of the Bush administration -- say, for attacking Iraq -- were branded "anti-American"). Any American citizen who argues that we are acting counter-productively with our unquestioning, full-scale support for Israel -- the use of American money, arms and diplomatic tools to enable anything the Israeli Government does -- is guilty of the crime of "Israel-bashing" and is condemned as being "anti-Israel" "
But the tactic is losing it's punch. Israeli apologists have used it too many times to cut off legitimate debate.
Neocons...."have so abused, over-used, manipulated and exploited the "anti-semitism" and "anti-Israel" accusations for improper and nakedly political ends that those terms have become drained of their meaning, have almost entirely lost their sting, and have become trivialized virtually to the point of caricature. That behavior has produced serious harm. Their trivialization and misuse of those terms have severely diminished the ability to stigmatize and attack real anti-Semitism, because legitimate accusations of anti-Semitism are now conflated with and discredited by the neocons' cynical attempts to wield it as a cheap debating weapon."
Last edited by padcrasher; 10-28-2009 at 11:57 AM..
How about Dr. Ezzeldeen, a peace activist, who lost his 3 daughters from a shell that hit is home. He worked at Israel's Shiba Hospital near Tel Aviv which is ironic. When I saw him talking about the ordeal, I wanted to cry, and some Israelis were actually YELLING at him in one interview. Un-believe-able...
I'm going to posit nobody was held responsible for this travesty. Dr. Ezzeldeen's voice is the voice of thousands that have no voice.
Anyway, I'm not interested in carrying on this conversation with people who condone these acts. My time would be better spent contributing to Humanitarian & Human Rights groups in whatever way I can.
Last edited by tekka-maki; 10-28-2009 at 12:00 PM..
The man bemoans the fact we can't have "constructive dialogue" then one sentence later drops the "anti-semite" bomb accusing us of wanting to to destroy Israel.
Ok, pal, I'm going to try something novel. I doubt it will work, knowing your history of posts. But here goes.
Let's try to have a constructive exchange of views IN THE CONTEXT OF ATTEMPTING TO ACHIEVE PEACE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE ARABS, including of course the Palestinian Arabs. I say there is no side which is all wrong or all right. Both sides must give. So here's goes:
An eventual Israeli withdrawal to roughly the 1967 lines with agreed swaps so that the Jewish suburbs of Jerusalem are in Israel. Also the creation of a Palestinian state. The "refugees" of four generations ago would have a choice of compensation or settlement in the new state.
In exchange, obviously the Palestinians must change their charters to remove the calls for Israel's destruction. They must also cease teaching and inciting their people, especially the children, to slaughter the Jews. And of course eliminate the terrorist groups like HAMAS who would wreck any peace deal.
This agreement would be carried out in stages, supported by the Arab states who would gradually normalize their relations with Israel.
Please try to respond constructively. Maybe we can stop the screaming and the propaganda.
Who occupied the lands currently known as "Israel" first? Jews or Palestinians?
Lets see how you answer.
What a silly loaded red herring. Easy question, but stupid. You're not being very clever... How about before then? What is Philistia Alex! No wait... Land of Canaan! What does it matter really... Excluding the archaeologist and theologian debates (to which there are many), what right do one group of people have to come back to a land that's been inhabited by another for quite some time and forcefully evict (by death if necessary) them on some ridiculous dogmatic pretense? Oh, because a book or scripture said so. WTF ever...
This conversation is totally outside the scope of this thread and I don't even know why I'm responding to your silly question, but as far as I'm concerned every idiotic, overbearing, hypocritical religion in this world can bite the big one and we can progress into a paradigm of open mindedness, in a world of one binding commonality: we are all human.
Last edited by tekka-maki; 10-28-2009 at 12:23 PM..
...what right do one group of people have to come back to a land that's been inhabited by another for quite some time and forcefully evict (by death if necessary) them on some ridiculous dogmatic pretense?
I took all the bread, mayo, and tomatoes off your answer and we are left with the meat.
There is your problem.
You just CAN'T concieve that the land was SHARED by Arabs and Jews since the begining of time.
In your argument, you MUST show how the Jews should not be there in order to make your points regarding the ownership of land more valid. Point is, your entire argument is based on dishonest fallacies.
The Arabs, under the Ottoman Empire, were the FIRST to try and exterminate another ethnicity for sole domination of the land. When the Axis decieded that the Jews were evil, and should be exterminated from the face of the earth, the arabs (specifically those around current day isreal) were very fast to jump on the bandwagon.
Low and behold, the Jews and the Allies win the war.
Now, the Pals are trying to play the vicitim? Playing that the Jews are trying to exterminate them? Come on, give me a break.
The Jews have definately made some mistakes over the course of history in regard to protecting their homes... which have been in that region just as long as the arabs. None the less, constant attacks from the Pals and threats from others necessitate that Israel protect what is also theirs.
Your answer goes a long way in explaining how you got to your opinion.
Oh, I think I did just conceive of that.... nice retool of my argument though. Problem is Israelis aren't sharing. See 1st post of this thread for additional insight on the matter genius.
Word of the day: Incommensurate. If you throw a rock at me and I blow your body apart with a grenade, it's not the same thing. Keep trying sport...
p.s. thanks for your gross oversimplfication over the last 710 years but for the record, I'll stick to the history books, thank you. Also neither 'Jews' nor 'Arabs' have been here since 'the beginning of time'. I think you've been listening to too much Sarah Palin
That's all he wrote for this thread. I have more respect for my turds than I do for certain people in this thread so no sense belaboring the issue of morality. Some ostensibly dont' get it.
buh-bye!!
Last edited by tekka-maki; 10-28-2009 at 12:37 PM..
1. Oooh a boycott. Scary. <points to Cuba> It's a token gesture.
2. Non-violent protest is what I mentioned, meaning that lobbing a bunch of missles, or car bombings undermine the moral high ground as does abuses by the Israelis. I think you completely missed the point.
What a silly loaded red herring. Easy question, but stupid. You're not being very clever... How about before then? What is Philistia Alex! No wait... Land of Canaan! What does it matter really... Excluding the archaeologist and theologian debates (to which there are many), what right do one group of people have to come back to a land that's been inhabited by another for quite some time and forcefully evict (by death if necessary) them on some ridiculous dogmatic pretense? Oh, because a book or scripture said so. WTF ever...
This conversation is totally outside the scope of this thread and I don't even know why I'm responding to your silly question, but as far as I'm concerned every idiotic, overbearing, hypocritical religion in this world can bite the big one and we can progress into a paradigm of open mindedness, in a world of one binding commonality: we are all human.
Unfortunately, you can't have a debate about Israel without considering the "idiotic, overbearing, hypnocritical religion" that you speak of. Israel is the time-keeper. Just because you don't acknowledge religion or biblical prophesy, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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<points to Cuba> It's a token gesture.
