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Old 05-11-2007, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Debary, Florida
2,267 posts, read 3,278,253 times
Reputation: 685

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I don't think anyone wants to come to your house and tell you how to run your home...what I think people are wishing is that IF you were their Mother, that you would love and accept their courage to live openly as gay rather then labeling them as wrong and sinful...

Sadly alot of people are in that position, their loved ones have this reaction, so to be true to themselves they seperate from the group that has no understanding and loving acceptance for them...can you blame them??

 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,321,639 times
Reputation: 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinajack View Post
what is amazing is i am not in here telling gays i would come in their house and tell them how to run their home or live in their homes, but they seem to think they can tell others how to live and yet they dont want to be judged or others to impose values on them
I'm not telling you how to live your life; I'd just like you to explain the logical reasoning behind why marriage has been claimed as a "Christian" institution when Atheists are permitted to wed while Christian gay couples can not. As a result, the unmarried gay child in your scenario will never be able to share a bedroom with his/her life partner no matter how long they are together as a couple while his/her heterosexual sibling might be able meet someone and marry them in a fraction of the time that the gay couple has been together and become suitable in your eyes as being able to share a bedroom just because of a LEGAL DOCUMENT. Marriage serves no religious basis, contrary to what some of you like to believe. As I referenced earlier, if that were the case, then why are Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. allowed to marry while gay CHRISTIANS are not? It is NOT a Christian issue, and I wish the right-wing would stop using that as a crutch to deny me the ability to marry my partner and obtain the same legal and medical benefits as everyone else!

Perhaps I'll start a new effort to have the marriage licenses of Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. revoked on the basis of them not being suitable to be joined in a "Christian" tradition. That would cause a massive UPROAR, would it not? Why then isn't a similar uproar being waged over the inability of gay Christians of all people to be afforded the same opportunity to consumate their love for one another?

I'm just STILL not seeing how you can justify not allowing your gay child to share a bedroom when you know all along that no matter how hard they try or how morally-upstanding they are that they'll NEVER have that opportunity!
 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,697 posts, read 3,472,665 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post
I'm not telling you how to live your life; I'd just like you to explain the logical reasoning behind why marriage has been claimed as a "Christian" institution when Atheists are permitted to wed while Christian gay couples can not. As a result, the unmarried gay child in your scenario will never be able to share a bedroom with his/her life partner no matter how long they are together as a couple while his/her heterosexual sibling might be able meet someone and marry them in a fraction of the time that the gay couple has been together and become suitable in your eyes as being able to share a bedroom just because of a LEGAL DOCUMENT. Marriage serves no religious basis, contrary to what some of you like to believe. As I referenced earlier, if that were the case, then why are Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, etc. allowed to marry while gay CHRISTIANS are not? It is NOT a Christian issue, and I wish the right-wing would stop using that as a crutch to deny me the ability to marry my partner and obtain the same legal and medical benefits as everyone else!

Perhaps I'll start a new effort to have the marriage licenses of Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. revoked on the basis of them not being suitable to be joined in a "Christian" tradition. That would cause a massive UPROAR, would it not? Why then isn't a similar uproar being waged over the inability of gay Christians of all people to be afforded the same opportunity to consumate their love for one another?

I'm just STILL not seeing how you can justify not allowing your gay child to share a bedroom when you know all along that no matter how hard they try or how morally-upstanding they are that they'll NEVER have that opportunity!
Hey, come on now! Britney's 22-hour marriage was NEEDED to preserve the sanctity of marriage. Needed, I tell ya!
 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Debary, Florida
2,267 posts, read 3,278,253 times
Reputation: 685
If a christian person came to my house and wanted to pray before the meal, or watch a christian TV program or read her bible, she would be welcome to do that...if she had no car and wanted to go to church, I would drive her...I accept her right to live life how she believes is right for her...
However it seems that the average christian would not be able to do this in the face of a gay person in their home...
 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:54 PM
 
180 posts, read 119,185 times
Reputation: 77
Thank you everyone for the support and words and encouragement.

However, I can still not believe some of the things I am reading here. kaykay, explain to me, please, how you find it MORALLY (since that seems to be a favorite word of Christians) acceptable for child molestors, murderers, and drug peddlers (which sell drugs to children) to get married yet two law abiding homosexuals cannot?

Does that really make sense to you? What's wrong with this society? Why do we look at the LOVE between two members of the same sex as such a bad thing?

Why isn't the true hatred in this world; genocide, murders, drugs, child molestations (guess the church likes to avoid THAT subject) talked about as passionately in the church? I can think of many "sins" greater than the love between two consenting adults of the same sex.

And you, carolinajack. You really amaze me. I've read your posts...I know you're a black man married to a white woman, and in the South. How would YOU feel if you didn't have the right to marry her? If this were 1937, you wouldn't have that right. How would that make you feel?

You know, because it wasn't too long ago that interracial marriage was said to be "immoral, wrong, and perverted". How can you be such a hypocrite, carolinajack? You should know full well what it feels like to be a member of a minority race, and what discrimination feels like.

I am still just in awe that in this day and age, with all of the advancements in science, that you still have people who are willing to take what the Bible says word by word and use this as a weapon against others.

I keep reading how many of you don't think gay marriage should be allowed because YOU personally don't think it's moral. You feel this way because that's what YOUR religion says.

Whatever happened to the separation of church and state? The "morality" of the issue isn't in question; fair and equal rights for all are (as in the Constitution).

Let's see, I don't think it's MORAL that the Menendez brothers, who brutally murdered their parents in Beverly Hills should have wives but they do. I don't think it's MORAL that Scott Peterson, who brutally murdered his son and daughter can get married if he wants.

And I sure as heck don't find it moral that my daughter cannot get married because she is a lesbian. A law abiding, respectful, good hearted person who just happens to be a lesbian.

Some of you really need to think about how ignorant you come across.

ScrantonWilkesBarre: You are a FINE young man. I know many that wouldn't mind having you as a son. Chin up, stay strong.

L59
 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:54 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,669,861 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post
In other words, I'd be on that air mattress indefinitely, whether I've been with my life partner for 30 days or 30 years? At what point do you draw the line? When does an unmarried partnership become "equalized" in terms of a legal marriage? You mean to tell me that Britney Spears can have a 24-hour drive-thru sham heterosexual wedding and could share a bed in your home if she were your child, yet if she were a lesbian and with Rosie O'Donnell for 30 years, they'd still be separated?
They wouldnt be seperated because they were never married to begin with. It doesnt mean that I wouldnt love my child if they were gay and it doesnt mean I would not defend them. I would not defend or condone their homosexuality. Just the same as if I had a child who committed any other sin. Lets say I had a child who committed murder (and NO I AM NOT COMPARING MURDER AND HOMOSEXUALITY, I AM PROVING A POINT ABOUT LOVE) I would love my child irregardless of their sin of murer, but I would not condone their action and they would be subject to the law of the land and if they chose not to repent before God, they would be subject to his punishment as well. I still love him/her and would gladly lay my life down for them, maybe that doesnt sit well with you and maybe you cant accept it, but as a Christian it is how I live and love.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,321,639 times
Reputation: 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by brittZ View Post
They wouldnt be seperated because they were never married to begin with. It doesnt mean that I wouldnt love my child if they were gay and it doesnt mean I would not defend them. I would not defend or condone their homosexuality. Just the same as if I had a child who committed any other sin. Lets say I had a child who committed murder (and NO I AM NOT COMPARING MURDER AND HOMOSEXUALITY, I AM PROVING A POINT ABOUT LOVE) I would love my child irregardless of their sin of murer, but I would not condone their action and they would be subject to the law of the land and if they chose not to repent before God, they would be subject to his punishment as well. I still love him/her and would gladly lay my life down for them, maybe that doesnt sit well with you and maybe you cant accept it, but as a Christian it is how I live and love.
Actually, thanks for the clarification, and I am now seeing this from your point of view with more clarity; your other reply (to which I replied) didn't get your point across very well, which is why I took issue with it. I understand what you mean now, and I can respect your opinion.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 06:02 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,669,861 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre View Post
Stop with this "marriage is a Christian institution" baloney too. If that's truly the way you feel, then why aren't you out there trying to prevent Atheist heterosexual couples from getting married and enjoying the same medical and legal benefits that Christian heterosexual couples can while homosexual Christian couples can NOT? If marriage is supposedly a "Christian" institution, then why do you support Atheists being set on the same pedestal as Christians in that respect? If you don't, then why don't some of you anti-gay marriage people prove to me why it is any different for a straight atheist couple to enter into a Christian institution? I'm just not understanding this, and it just doesn't seem FAIR to me at all!
Please read my first post, I have included it again here for you.

As for gay marriage, I am not of this world. My focus is not on what other people choose to do, material posessions, etc. . . My focus is on living my life according to God's commands. Henceforth, not only do I not care about gay marriage, I say that as God has said that his laws are given only to believers, do as you like. It is of no consequense to me. If however any nonbeliever chooses to accept his word, then they should be held accountable to God's law.

Believer, nonbeliever, gay, straight, brown, black, purple or white my job as a Christian is to love you and accept you as a person. If you choose to accept God's word, then our duty to each other is to hold each other accountable to following God's law. If you choose to not accept God's word, then my duty is to give you your space and pray for you, but I cannot judge and I cannot hold you accountable to God's law as you are not a believer.

In the confines of my house I would expect any who enter it to follow the rules of my house which happen to be God's law. If I were to visit someone else's house who was not a Christian and had unmarried children sleeping together, it would not be my concern as they are not Christian and I have no right to say what the rules of their house should be. I ask for that same respect.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 06:19 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,669,861 times
Reputation: 427
SWB -

I had to split my post as it was to long to include as one post. I am glad that I was able to clarify. Know that there are Christians out there who do not judge another person for their sins. As Christian, I believe that homosexuality is a sin. So what. A lot of things are sin. I have sin in my life. I'm not perfect. Christianity is not easy to understand. To many people want to bend it to suit their lifestyle; either to justify their sin and lifestyle or to condemn others for theirs. The truth is we are all sinful. We were born with a sinful nature. It is why Christ put himself through the pain and death that he did. No man, Christian or otherwise has the right to judge another, but Christians have a right and a responsibility to hold each other accountable to God's law and offer the word to any non-Christian who wishes to receive it.

Lindsey59 - Know that as a Christian, while I may not condone your daughter's lifestyle be it genetic or pure choice, it is as a parent does not condone a child's misbehavior and yet still loves the child. I have the love of a Christian for all people and that includes you, your daughter, and everyone else. No one can say that another person is just or unjust without bringing judgment through the eyes of God upon themself. Love your daughter and know that God loves her too.
 
Old 05-11-2007, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Debary, Florida
2,267 posts, read 3,278,253 times
Reputation: 685
Brittz
- are there christians out there who don't have the profound arrogance to pretend they know what other peoples sins are??

Are there christians out there who just worry about their own life and relationship with god and have too much humility to presume they have the right to label some action of another as a sin??

Myself, I know whats right for me...I don't presume to believe that my path in life is right for anyone else...I have some VERY strong beliefs, I am going out of my way to NOT brainwash my child with them...I tell her what I believe and then I point out what some other groups think...I tell her when she gets older there might come a time when she feels a certain way about something but it will be her choice, to decide for example to attend church or not, which church to attend or to be an atheist...

How can you have freedom of religion when there is no freedom of choice, brainwashing your child is taking that freedom of choice away from them...

Last edited by Lisa_from_Debary; 05-11-2007 at 06:26 PM.. Reason: changed last sentence to bold
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