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Old 11-04-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,897,551 times
Reputation: 2410

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcnyc View Post
No, I am suggesting that people have insurance before they get sick.
I have a question (not trying to be argumentative, just curious):

What about people who have insurance but then switch jobs (which happens reasonably frequently in a lot of fields these days)? Seriously, since I've been a working adult, I've been on at least 4 different insurance plans - so what happens when Plans 2-4 consider whatever (serious) illnesses I may have had treated on Plan #1 as a pre-existing condition?
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Lead/Deadwood, SD
948 posts, read 2,785,695 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcnyc View Post
this kills me. How do you expect insurance companies to stay in business ??? !!!

I am no fan of insurance companies, but come on. What do you want them to do? How would accepting someone with a preexisting condition make any sense? you are basically asking them to flush their money down the toilet. In reality... you are asking them to raise everyone's premiums so they can accept pre-existing conditions.
My wife has a pre-existing condition from her teen years that is costing us tens of thousands of dollars to take care of, not to mention interest. The system needs an option - we can't afford health insurance anymore because of the things that it doesn't cover that we have to pay for. It's a snowball effect that is dragging us down. We work hard and are making what would have otherwise been considered a decent living which keeps us from qualifying for assistance programs. So here our kids are living without it as well - it sucks and worries me everyday - the whopping 2 health care providers (until a few months ago there was only 1) that are accepted in my area have nothing to offer. I know we will get through it - but for those of you looking for a job (or 2) feel free to support something that covers pre-existing my wife and I would be happy to go back to 1 job each with 40 hour work weeks.
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Old 11-04-2009, 02:52 PM
 
Location: New York, NY
745 posts, read 1,435,454 times
Reputation: 425
Quote:
In a perfect world people would have insurance before getting sick. Not everyone does and not everyone can afford it right now. This is bigger than just adults not being able to pay for insurance. If your child has asthma, diabetes, or other illness they also now have a pre-existing condition that will follow them into adulthood. Once they are off the parents health insurance plan how are they to afford coverage since they have a pre-existing condition? Being in a pool with other sick people (the high risk pool the repubs are talking about) isn't going to provide much in the way of savings since everyone in the plan is sick and getting tons of coverage. You need healthy people in the plan to help pay for the very sick. Before some whine about not wanting to pay to cover the sick if you have health insurance now that is happening. The only difference is the insurance company can kick you out once you cost too much to cover.
Jillz- I realize I am coming off like a heartless jerk here.
The point is that insurance companies base premiums on percentages. If someone gets sick, they assumabley have this already calculated into their total base of premiums. Covering sick people off the bat would change this scale dramatically.

Again, I am not saying that is correct or "good", but it is the reality.

To just flat out say "Insurance comapnies should be forced to cover the sick" (not quoting you... just a general quote) does not account for certain economic realities.

I do feel for people that are sick without insurance. It is a problem.... no question. I do not mean to be insensitive to this, but at the end of the day should others really be "forced" to pay for sick people's coverage? If so, why?

Just compare this ideology to other things. Does it make sense to compare this same concept to utilities? groceries?

How about education? Money is pooled, but geographically and people choose where they want to live and pay taxes.

In a perfect world, everyone can chip in and pay for the sick's medical costs, but this is not a perfect world.
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Lead/Deadwood, SD
948 posts, read 2,785,695 times
Reputation: 872
The gov. does have assistance programs for groceries and utilities and obviously schools -
And who uses those the most? Not sure, but I bet those with medical issues missing work and avoiding the doctor due to the expense creates a situation where others are forced pay, and yes since we pay taxes we are pretty much forced to - so why not nip it in the but instead of waiting till they are in the hospital getting treatment they will never pay for (which raises the rates for others) after having lived on subsidies they took advantage of because of a previous problem. I am not saying improved health care will cure all problems, but all too often people forget that they are paying for others health care - over and over and over - mainly due to the fact the preventable problem's treatment was postponed and then never paid for - then consider loss of work (+ tax revenue), utility bills didn't get paid, bankruptcy was filed etc. - so why not just step up and take care of each other with pride instead of doing it the cowardly way it is done now - after the fact instead of before -
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,823,173 times
Reputation: 4585
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcnyc View Post
this kills me. How do you expect insurance companies to stay in business ??? !!!
Truth be told, it would be my hope that they don't.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcnyc View Post
this kills me. How do you expect insurance companies to stay in business ??? !!!

I am no fan of insurance companies, but come on. What do you want them to do? How would accepting someone with a preexisting condition make any sense? you are basically asking them to flush their money down the toilet. In reality... you are asking them to raise everyone's premiums so they can accept pre-existing conditions.
Then maybe they should get out of the health care financing business. I'm not going to get into the "health care is a right" (though I think it is) debate, but if financing of a basic human need is based on making a profit, and this is keeping people from getting the care they need, then maybe we ought to change the way health care is paid for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcnyc View Post
Jillz- I realize I am coming off like a heartless jerk here.
The point is that insurance companies base premiums on percentages. If someone gets sick, they assumabley have this already calculated into their total base of premiums. Covering sick people off the bat would change this scale dramatically.

Again, I am not saying that is correct or "good", but it is the reality.

To just flat out say "Insurance comapnies should be forced to cover the sick" (not quoting you... just a general quote) does not account for certain economic realities.

I do feel for people that are sick without insurance. It is a problem.... no question. I do not mean to be insensitive to this, but at the end of the day should others really be "forced" to pay for sick people's coverage? If so, why?

Just compare this ideology to other things. Does it make sense to compare this same concept to utilities? groceries?

How about education? Money is pooled, but geographically and people choose where they want to live and pay taxes.

In a perfect world, everyone can chip in and pay for the sick's medical costs, but this is not a perfect world.
Question #1 is a philosophical one in part, but keep in mind that's what you're doing with insurance; spreading the cost over a lot of people who are not currently using health care to pay for those who are. It's a concept of group risk rather than individual risk.

Someone already discussed groceries and housing so I"ll skip to education. The majority of the money for public K-12 edcuation in my state comes from the state. Local property taxes make up a smaller amount of the per-pupil cost than general state taxes (sales, income, etc).

Interestingly, some of the "Blues" and Kaiser are non-profit, though truth be told, I have no idea how they handle pre-existing conditions.
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Old 11-04-2009, 08:58 PM
 
1,043 posts, read 1,289,836 times
Reputation: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadex View Post
Republicans have a much better plan - Other Views - MiamiHerald.com (http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/other-views/story/1314865.html - broken link)
• Let individuals and families purchase health insurance across state lines;
• Allow individuals and small businesses to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do;
• Give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower healthcare costs.
• End junk lawsuits that contribute to higher healthcare costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
Visit Health Care - GOP Solutions for America - GOP.gov to learn more about the Republican plan to lower healthcare costs.
We now have a choice:
We can work together to implement smart, fiscally responsible reforms that improve Americans' healthcare or we can recklessly pursue this partisan government takeover that creates far more problems than it solves.






I like bullet point 1 and 2, but they should be advocating an end to the tax break large corporations receive to provide health care plans to employees.


This advantage needs to be ended and we need to give the consumer freedom to control and tailor their own plan to their specific needs. The industry is already government supported and it needs to move forward and change the way they provide health insurance to the public. I think 1 and 2 will help, but they do not do enough to lower prices and give more individuals the incentive to be involved in the medical risk pool.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
745 posts, read 1,435,454 times
Reputation: 425
Great Op Ed in the WSJ today on this.....
John Shadegg: There is a No-Cost Path to Cheaper Health Care - WSJ.com

A lot of the same ideas as the OP Post.... worth a read.

"These ideas considered separately or enacted together will reduce costs for those who have health-insurance coverage and enable others to afford it. The savings could be used to fund high-risk pools for individuals with pre-existing conditions, and to provide tax credits and vouchers so no American goes without basic health coverage. "
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:02 AM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,510,765 times
Reputation: 2052
CBO Analyzes GOP Health Proposal - Regulatory,Legislative and Tax Issues - Life and Health Insurance News

The House Republican health proposal might cut the federal budget deficit by $68 billion over 10 years, but...

...By 2019, "the number of nonelderly people without health insurance would be reduced by about 3 million relative to current law; leaving about 52 million nonelderly residents uninsured


If the object is to get everyone covered, the GOP plan fails.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:45 PM
 
17,389 posts, read 11,938,010 times
Reputation: 16137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I just wish more people would eschew burgers and fries. Then we wouldn't need such a damn complicated health care plan.

I mean, now McDonald's has a third-of-a-pound Angus burger. Does anyone really pretend not to know where this madness is leading?

I don't care if you're a Dem or a Repub: if you start eating third-of-a-pound burgers, you're going to need one helluva lot of healthcare. And at least two seats on every airplane trip you take.

My solution to the problem? Make it everone's patriotic duty to get healthy and stay healthy.

I pledge allegiance to the life
That I have been given to cherish
And to the body in which it lives
One bitchin bod, under skin.
With tight buns
And clear tubes
For all
The man at the top has proven that it doesn't work that way. Obama has the best, free healthcare in the world. Yet he continues to smoke. His great healthcare and supposed brilliance hasn't forced him to make the decision for better health.
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