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Probably society was better in many ways when few women worked, kids came home from school to a mom in the house, there was a good homecooked meal on the table, not just some microwaveable junk. Marriages lasted longer back then -- certain a lower divorce and single mother rate is better in many ways for society.
People could live on one income - that was better. Back then a man could graduate from highschool, marry by age 22, buy a home by age 23 and have it paid off in 15 years. Today that same house --- the SAME house would require two college graduates each working full time. Kids were better prepared for school.
So in many ways I think it was better back in the one-wage earner family days.
However -- if women want to work, if they want to stress themselves out working full time, raising children, trying to have it all -- the freedom should be there.
[quote=Who?Me?!;11522896
AND: true equality comes when women CAN be mediocre, even lousy, and still keep their jobs...just like men.[/quote]
See, this is a huge failing of the women's movement -- thinking that being equal to a man, even with regard to man's WORST qualities, is somehow an improvement over being a woman!!!! I mean, how pathetic is that? How ironic that women strive to negate the natural strengths of their gender in order to emulate the worst qualities associated with males. That's a misquided aspiration if ever there was one.
Is it wonderful that there are more girl gangs in the ghetto now, and that they are becoming increasingly vicious?
I think we should all try to be better people while embracing what we are and recognize that "equal" does not mean "equivalent." Men should stop trying to learn how to cry and emote more, and women should stop trying to be cutthroat in the professional sphere.
This is where perceptions of equality fall short. My concept of being equal does not mean I aspire to be equivalent to the worst that men represent, that is just silly. People set women to a higher standard as a parent than men, and that is not fair. Men with children who enlist and spend 11 months of the year overseas are heros. Women who do the same thing are criticized "what about their children?". Why is that? The feminist movement has been blamed for every social failure in our society since the 1960's. I consider myself a feminist, and that means I make the best decisions for myself as they impact my family and myself. There is no right or wrong here, and what works for each family differs. There are major pros and major cons for each decision. I have met people I consider fabulous parents who work an 80 hour week, but the interactions they have with their children, and way they plan for and care for their children is exemplary. I have met SAHM who I consider terrible parents. The one major downside to having two working parents that I see is that people are tending to give their children more material things than is needed, instead of spending time with their kids. The only positive of the failing economy is that it is forcing people to step back a bit, and scale back. Smaller birthday parties, one gift at Christmas (gasp), going for a hike instead of going shopping. Being a good parent has nothing to do with whether you work or not, but a lot to do with priorities and common sense.
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Drat! Now I can't find the exact quote or the author, but it's something like "I'll gladly walk 10 paces behind a man, when I find one that can walk 10 paces faster than I can."
One thing that has not been mentioned here so far is changes in the workplace over the last few years. My dad worked 8-5 Monday through Friday, seldom worked overtime, and seldom traveled. My husband works overtime when the job demands it, and travels 50-75%. It would be extremely hard if I worked for my kids to take part in any after-school activities, or even to participate in school activities. I definitely think some work environments have become even more family-unfriendly. My point is things are not even as they were 20 years ago on the work front. Job demands have changed, and family structures have changed.
Well, I believe you are a nurse and nursing has always been pretty inflexible. That's why I only worked very part-time (sometimes one afternoon a week) when my kids were little. The only problem with doing that is it sort of puts you on a "mommy track" where you're not taken seriously. This does vary by employer, I would add.
I disagree that society would be better off if women stayed out of the workplace, being a woman in the workplace. BUT I don't have children.
I do think that society would be better of is one parent stayed home. I've long held that opinion, as well as the opinion of not caring if it's mom or dad staying home.
I know that there are many families that need 2 incomes to make ends meet, but there are many families that need 2 to pay for "stuff" that has little to do with creating a happy family life.
See, this is a huge failing of the women's movement -- thinking that being equal to a man, even with regard to man's WORST qualities, is somehow an improvement over being a woman!!!! I mean, how pathetic is that? How ironic that women strive to negate the natural strengths of their gender in order to emulate the worst qualities associated with males. That's a misquided aspiration if ever there was one.
Is it wonderful that there are more girl gangs in the ghetto now, and that they are becoming increasingly vicious?
I think we should all try to be better people while embracing what we are and recognize that "equal" does not mean "equivalent." Men should stop trying to learn how to cry and emote more, and women should stop trying to be cutthroat in the professional sphere.
Women should learn to suck up those tears more and men should stop trying to be cutthroat in the professional sphere and then we all may be better PEOPLE!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
This is where perceptions of equality fall short. My concept of being equal does not mean I aspire to be equivalent to the worst that men represent, that is just silly. People set women to a higher standard as a parent than men, and that is not fair. Men with children who enlist and spend 11 months of the year overseas are heros. Women who do the same thing are criticized "what about their children?". Why is that? The feminist movement has been blamed for every social failure in our society since the 1960's. I consider myself a feminist, and that means I make the best decisions for myself as they impact my family and myself. There is no right or wrong here, and what works for each family differs. There are major pros and major cons for each decision. I have met people I consider fabulous parents who work an 80 hour week, but the interactions they have with their children, and way they plan for and care for their children is exemplary. I have met SAHM who I consider terrible parents. The one major downside to having two working parents that I see is that people are tending to give their children more material things than is needed, instead of spending time with their kids. The only positive of the failing economy is that it is forcing people to step back a bit, and scale back. Smaller birthday parties, one gift at Christmas (gasp), going for a hike instead of going shopping. Being a good parent has nothing to do with whether you work or not, but a lot to do with priorities and common sense.
W H E R E did I say women SHOULD aspire to be like men of any quality?
I SAID: true equality comes when women CAN be mediocre, even lousy, and still keep their jobs...just like men.
Yes, they shouldn't have to be better and work harder to prove that they can do a "man's" job. THAT'S what that means.
I would never ever rely on a man to take care of me, never. You never know what may happen, he could die, he could leave you, get sick & can't work....no way, I make my money & I pay my bills & if I'm in a relationship we both work & we both pay half the bills & rent, period.
I would never ever rely on a man to take care of me, never. You never know what may happen, he could die, he could leave you, get sick & can't work....no way, I make my money & I pay my bills & if I'm in a relationship we both work & we both pay half the bills & rent, period.
I see your point but I don't look at it that way. My husband and I made the decision together that one of us stay at home, could have been him or me, but my career could take the gap. It's my job, half of what he earns is mine, but more 100% of what he earns is the family's. I totally agree though about not being able to predict the future, but even in families where both people work, if something were to happen to one of them, they would probably struggle to get by. I am lucky in that if I needed to walk into a full-time job tomorrow I could, and get paid fairly well. The most important thing about it though is maintaining your self-esteem. I refuse to be lesser than because I am at home now. What I do now is important to me, but what I used to do was important to me too.
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